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| Re: If you were to buy a new native DAW PC today... [message #83657 is a reply to message #83654] |
Tue, 24 April 2007 14:37   |
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Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
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Senior Member |
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/>
>> 3 A8iT @ $275.00 - $1650.00
>> 3 x A8oT @ 275.00 -$1650.00
>> 4 EDS @ $250.00= $1000.00
>> 8 x ADAT cards @ 250.00= $2000.00 (not really necessary unless you want
>> to
>> fully interface with another DAW like I was doing)-$2000.00
>> GenX6-$400.00
>> Nice D/A converter for monitoring -$800.00
>> computer to run Paris: Appx $1,000.00
>> computer to run VSTi's-Appx $1500.00
>> RME HDSP 9652 for VSTi box-$450.00
>>
>> That's around $10,500-------or around $9000.00 with just a couple of ADAT
>> modules instead of eight of them.
>>
>> First you should ask............do I need all of this I/O???, because if
> you
>> don't, your costs will go wayyyyy down with either system.
>>
>> Is the difference in capabilities between the two systems worth the extra
>> money to you?. If you are happy with lots of workarounds to integrate
>> hardware and software with Paris, 44.1/48k sample rates and great sound
> once
>> you get it set up, I'd stay with Paris. You could buy a lot of nice
> hardware
>> processors to integrate with Paris with the extra money you would save by
>> staying away from native.
>>
>> To go native, you're going to spend a lot more, especially when it comes
> to
>> a computer to run the system, but from an integration/workflow
>> standpoint,
>> you're going to have fewer workarounds, but not eliminate them completely
>> unless you go with the horsepower that is available to a dual quad Mac
>> running Logic or Digital Performer. If you go with a Mac and the hardware
> I
>
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| Re: If you were to buy a new native DAW PC today... [message #83658 is a reply to message #83657] |
Tue, 24 April 2007 15:40 |
Graham Duncan
Messages: 147
Registered: December 2008
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Senior Member |
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;> have described, then add another 3500.00 - 4 K to the price of the native
>> system.
>>
>> Things are getting ready to change pretty drastically in the near future
>> too, but for now, this is what you've got to work with if you want a 24
>> analog I/O with an additional 20 digital I/O native system that will
> achieve
>> the same performance level as Paris.
>>
>> Deej
>>
>>
>> Deej.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Now for the native system, add 4 x UAD-1's and another 13 slot Magma to
> hold
>> them and for the Paris system, whatever hardware and software you think
>> would give you the same mojo. With Paris, you would have to alocate your
>> hardware, *per submix*, with native, you would have it avaliable for the
>> whole system.
>>
>> Much less to deal with by way of workarounds with Native. Much more
>> expensive to get the same kind of sound.
>>
>> .
&
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| Re: If you were to buy a new native DAW PC today... [message #83661 is a reply to message #83658] |
Tue, 24 April 2007 15:13 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
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Senior Member |
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;> needa MADI rig or Furman HDS-16 for large sessions
>>> Native is much better when it comes to integrating plugins like UAD-1
>>> Native requires much more horsepower if you want to run it in low latency
>>> mode like Paris-think dual socket mobo/dual core CPU
>>> Native has higher sample rates available - Paris does not
>>> Native does not have submix issues if you use the proper hardware-if
you
>>> don't, it definitely will when tracking (see references to Furman cue
>>> system)
>>> Native integrates VSTi's , but will require a separate computer right
now
>> to
>>> run heavy VSTi track counts because of Windows memory limitations so
>> that's
>>> not much different than Paris. The cure for this would be either to use
a
>>> monster Mac or wait for the Vista suckage to be resolved...if ever.
>>> Native has control surfaces available with automated faders and cool
>> goodies
>>> like that.
>>> Native has great midi and some incredible flexiility as far as editing
>>> and
>>> manipulating of audio tempo, etc.
>>> It's nice being able to integrate everything on one machine for mixing.
>>> There *is* a learning curve, but it's a fun one (for me). I still use
the
>>> Neve 5042. I think I would not like the sound of Cubase 4 *for my
>> purposes*,
>>> without it.
>>>
>>> I think Paris sounds better right out of the box. Without a monster
>> computer
>>> and a tape emulator, native doesn't = Paris, IMO. With these items, it
>> can,
>>> and does. Cost wise, the more I/O, the greater the cost differential
>> between
>>> the two systems. To recreate my native system with as many I/O as my
>>> Paris
>>> system had (as it will be in about 2 weeks), plus the ability to operate
>> at
>>> the same low latencies as Paris you would need:
>>>
>>> 3 x RME HDSP 9652's and 1 RME Multiface (2 of the HDSP's in the master
>>> computer, the other in a slave box for streaming VSTi's to the master
>>> box)-Appx $1800.00 street
>>> 1 x 13 slot Magma for the HDSP's in the Master box-appx $500.00 street
>>> 1 computer running an Opteron 185 CPU-could be built for around $1200.00
>&g
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| Re: If you were to buy a new native DAW PC today... [message #83663 is a reply to message #83654] |
Tue, 24 April 2007 15:33 |
John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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ng for around $2k as another option. None of these options
>>> are cheap.
>>> Now add another Magma and 4 x UAD-1 cards-$2000.00
>>>
>>> That's roughly $15 ,000.00 to around $18,000.00 + depending on how you
>>> go.
>>>
>>> At this point, Pro Tools HD starts looking sorta viable if you need a
big
>>> system.
>>>
>>> Compare the price of this to a 4 x EDS card/4 x MEC system with 4 x ADAT
>>> cards per MEC and an A8it and A8ot and an IF2 in 3 of the 4 x MECs.
>>>
>>> Appx prices last I looked-
>>> 4 x MEC @ $100.00- $400.00
>>> 3 A8iT @ $275.00 - $1650.00
>>> 3 x A8oT @ 275.00 -$1650.00
>>> 4 EDS @ $250.00= $1000.00
>>> 8 x ADAT cards @ 250.00= $2000.00 (not really necessary unless you want
>>> to
>>> fully interface with another DAW like I was doing)-$2000.00
>>> GenX6-$400.00
>>> Nice D/A converter for monitoring -$800.00
>>> computer to run Paris: Appx $1,000.00
>>> computer to run VSTi's-Appx $1500.00
>>> RME HDSP 9652 for VSTi box-$450.00
>>>
>>> That's around $10,500-------or around $9000.00 with just a couple of
ADAT
>>> modules instead of eight of them.
>>>
>>> First you should ask............do I need all of this I/O???, because
if
>> you
>>> don't, your costs will go wayyyyy down with either system.
>>>
>>> Is the difference in capabilities between the two systems worth the extra
>>> money to you?. If you are happy with lots of workarounds to integrate
>>> hardware and software with Paris, 44.1/48k sample rates and great sound
>> once
>>> you get it set up, I'd stay with Paris. You could buy a lot of nice
>> hardware
>>> processors to integrate with Paris with the extra money you would save
by
>>> staying away from native.
>>>
>>> To go native, you're go
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| Re: If you were to buy a new native DAW PC today... [message #83664 is a reply to message #83660] |
Tue, 24 April 2007 15:56 |
Chris Ludwig
Messages: 868
Registered: May 2006
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Senior Member |
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ing to spend a lot more, especially when it comes
>> to
>>> a computer to run the system, but from an integration/workflow
>>> standpoint,
>>> you're going to have fewer workarounds, but not eliminate them completely
>>> unless you go with the horsepower that is available to a dual quad Mac
>>> running Logic or Digital Performer. If you go with a Mac and the hardware
>> I
>>> have described, then add another 3500.00 - 4 K to the price of the native
>>> system.
>>>
>>> Things are getting ready to change pretty drastically in the near future
>>> too, but for now, this is what you've got to work with if you want a
24
>>> analog I/O with an additional 20 digital I/O native system that will
>> achieve
>>> the same performance level as Paris.
>>>
>>> Deej
>>>
>>>
>>> Deej.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Now for the native system, add 4 x UAD-1's and another 13 slot Magma
to
>> hold
>>> them and for the Paris system, whatever hardware and software you think
>>> would give you the same mojo. With Paris, you would have to alocate your
>>> hardware, *per submix*, with native, you would have it avaliable for
the
>>> whole system.
>>>
>>> Much less to deal with b
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| Re: If you were to buy a new native DAW PC today... [message #83666 is a reply to message #83657] |
Tue, 24 April 2007 16:04 |
Chris Ludwig
Messages: 868
Registered: May 2006
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Senior Member |
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x. Without a monster computer
>and a tape emulator, native doesn't = Paris, IMO. With these items, it can,
>and does. Cost wise, the more I/O, the greater the cost differential between
>the two systems. To recreate my native system with as many I/O as my Paris
>system had (as it will be in about 2 weeks), plus the ability to operate
at
>the same low latencies as Paris you would need:
>
>3 x RME HDSP 9652's and 1 RME Multiface (2 of the HDSP's in the master
>computer, the other in a slave box for streaming VSTi's to the master
>box)-Appx $1800.00 street
>1 x 13 slot Magma for the HDSP's in the Master box-appx $500.00 street
>1 computer running an Opteron 185 CPU-could be built for around $1200.00
>from scratch
>1 computer running 2 x Opteron 2218 CPU's on a server system-could be built
>for around $2500.00 from scratch
>2 x RME ADI8-DS's-Street on two of these these is around $2400.00 ($1.2k
a
>piece average)
>1 RME ADI4-DD-street is around $600.00
>1 x Mytek Stereo 96 A/D-Street at $800.00
>1 x Mytek Stereo 96 D/A-Street at $800.00
>Lucid GenX6-Street at appx $400.00-to distribute WC from Mytek AD which
is
>used as a master clock
>Neve 5042-$1650.00 (to get Parislike sound)
>Furman HDS-16 cue system to cross RME HDSP submixes when tracking - $1500.00
>(or an HDSP MADI system plus an HDSP AES 16 plus BOB-instead of using the
>Multiface and 2 x HDSP 95652's-add another $2400.00 for this - there is
also
>a Friend-chip audio digitap patchbay that will accommodate some of this
>crosscard routing for around $2k as another option. None of these options
>are cheap.
>Now add another Magma and 4 x UAD-1 cards-$2000.00
>
>That's roughly $15 ,000.00 to around $18,000.00 + depending on how you go.
>
>At this point, Pro Tools HD starts looking sorta viable if you need a big
>system.
>
>Compare the price of this to a 4 x EDS card/4 x MEC system with 4 x ADAT
>cards per MEC and an A8it and A8ot and an IF2 in 3 of the 4 x MECs.
>
>Appx prices last I looked-
>4 x MEC @ $100.00- $400.00
>3 A8iT @ $275.00 - $1650.00
>3 x A8oT @ 275.00 -$1650.00
>4 EDS @ $250.00= $1000.00
>8 x ADAT cards @ 250.00= $2000.00 (not really necessary unless you want
to
>fully interface with another DAW like I was doin
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| Re: If you were to buy a new native DAW PC today... [message #83667 is a reply to message #83661] |
Tue, 24 April 2007 16:05 |
Chris Ludwig
Messages: 868
Registered: May 2006
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Senior Member |
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g)-$2000.00
>GenX6-$400.00
>Nice D/A converter for monitoring -$800.00
>computer to run Paris: Appx $1,000.00
>computer to run VSTi's-Appx $1500.00
>RME HDSP 9652 for VSTi box-$450.00
>
>That's around $10,500-------or around $9000.00 with just a couple of ADAT
>modules instead of eight of them.
>
>First you should ask............do I need all of this I/O???, because if
you
>don't, your costs will go wayyyyy down with either system.
>
>Is the difference in capabilities between the two systems worth the extra
>money to you?. If you are happy with lots of workarounds to integrate
>hardware and software with Paris, 44.1/48k sample rates and great sound
once
>you get it set up, I'd stay with Paris. You could buy a lot of nice hardware
>processors to integrate with Paris with the extra money you would save by
>staying away from native.
>
>To go native, you're going to spend a lot more, especially when it comes
to
>a computer to run the system, but from an integration/workflow standpoint,
>you're going to have fewer workarounds, but not eliminate them completely
>unless you go with the horsepower that is available to a dual quad Mac
>running Logic or Digital Performer. If you go with a Mac and the hardware
I
>have described, then add another 3500.00 - 4 K to the price of the native
>system.
>
>Things are getting ready to change pretty drastically in the near future
>too, but for now, this is what you've got to work with if you want a 24
>analog I/O with an additional 20 digital I/O native system that will achieve
>the same performance level as Paris.
>
>Deej
>
>
>Deej.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Now for the native system, add 4 x UAD-1's and another 13 slot Magma to
hold
>them and for the Paris system, whatever hardware and software you think
>would give you the same mojo. With Paris, you would have to alocate your
>hardware, *per submix*, with native, you would have it avaliable for the
>whole system.
>
>Much less to deal with by way of workarounds with Native. Much more
>expensive to get the same kind of sound.
>
>.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm finding that without the benefit of a monster computer, I see no point
>in going native
>"Rich" <studiodog_99@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:464b480a$1@linux...
>>
>> I saw you had a few issues (Hard drive Raid issues etc...) awhile back,
>> but
>> are you h
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| Re: If you were to buy a new native DAW PC today... [message #83691 is a reply to message #83686] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 11:02 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
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Senior Member |
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Now for the native system, add 4 x UAD-1's and another 13 slot Magma to
>>>hold them and for the Paris system, whatever hardware and software you
>>>think would give you the same mojo. With Paris, you would have to alocate
>>>your hardware, *per submix*, with native, you would have it avaliable for
>>>the whole system.
>>>
>>>Much less to deal with by way of workarounds with Native. Much more
>>>expensive to get the same kind of sound.
>>>
>>>.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm finding that without the benefit of a monster computer, I see no
>>>point in going native
>>>"Rich" <studiodog_99@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:464b480a$1@linux...
>>>
>>>
>>>>I saw you had a few issues (Hard drive Raid issues etc...) awhile back,
>>>>but
>>>>are you happy with the new system. Are you glad you moved? How bad
>>>>was
>>>>the learning curve - any good books / DVD's etc. that helped?
>>>>
>>>>What is the setup that you settled on and are you still using the portico
>>>>across the mains ...
>>>>
>>>>I have Cubase SX 3 (Don N. helped me connetct it with Paris at one point)
>>>>- but I still always find myself back with Paris as it's so easy to
>>>>track
>>>>in and mix in. Lack of time due to family and day job add to that!
>>>>
>>>>And thanks for all the info your always providing....
>>>
>>>
>chuck (and Thad),
Any of VM options recognize USB devices? I'm running VPC 2007 and my
understanding is it won't actually poll and grab USB printers/ scanners/
etc.
JH
> Hi Neil,
>
> Here are some practical examples of why I use a VM exclusively for all desktop
> apps.
>
> The entire file system of the virtual machine is contained in a virtual hard
> disk, which is a single physical disk file. All of my corporate applications,
> including Office, Email, etc are installed on this VM. This file can be
> moved freely from physical machine to machine. Software is installed only
> once. Software is authorized only once. This brings several advantages:
>
> 1. I can back up my entire machine by simply copying this file to an external
> hard drive, an operation that takes 7 minutes on my machine. I copy the
> VM from my primary work laptop to my home desktop machine every night. If
> anything were to happen to my laptop, I could be back up and running on a
> new laptop by simply copying the file.
>
> 2. I can move this file to any of my other m
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| Re: If you were to buy a new native DAW PC today... [message #83696 is a reply to message #83694] |
Wed, 25 April 2007 12:09 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
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t;Ubuntu Feisty installs easily into both Virtual Box and VMWare, as does
>>
>>Debian
>>
>>>Etch. I haven't tried a Debian testing or unstable netinstall but my guess
>>>is they'd work fine. SuSE as well, but at this point for me running SuSE
>>>is practically as offensive as running XP.
>>>
>>>Good luck, and if you have any questions related to Debian (if you go that
>>>route) or (to a lesser extent) Ubuntu feel free to post here or email me
>>>off list.
>>>
>>>TCB
>>>
>>>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>It's the only way I work now. As I posted in the past, my physical machine
>>>>has absolutely nothing installed on it. I install and run everything
>
> in
>
>>>>a series of VMs. There are a couple of options for XP.
>>>>
>>>>1. Microsoft Virtual PC 2007. Free download. Highly optimized for windows.
>>>>Tight integration with physical PC (file copy, drag and drop, cut and
>>
>>paste,
>>
>>>>display resolutions).
>>>>
>>>>2. Virtual Box. Open Source. Free download. Cool.
>>>>
>>>>3. VMWare. Cost$. Probably the best there is, if only because of the expansive
>>>>feature set.
>>>>
>>>>There's nothing inherently dangerous about a VM, and I run a bunch of
>
> linux
>
>>>>distros just fine. In fact, the physical machine is 100% isolated from
>>>
>>>anything
>>>
>>>>the VM may do.
>>>>
>>>>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>What's the go hear?
>>>>>
>>>>>I want to get an isolated copy of Linux running under Windows XP on my
>>>
>>>work
>>>
>>>>>laptop here. What's the go? Is it dangerous at all?
>>>>>
>>>>>What's the popular option software wise?
>>>>>
>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>Kim.
>>>>
>Well, thank you Gantt. We did, of course, expect you to love it, since we
do. We expect everyone to love it. :)
How long? Well, it actually represents a few years of "spare time"
interrupted by floods, remodellings, and deaths in families, including the
very unfortunate and far too young death of our violinist. When we finished
the CD, however, I took the session logs and figured out how much time we
actually spent in the studio. I calculated tha
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