Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Scherzo beta 1.2 + new PSCL
| Scherzo beta 1.2 + new PSCL [message #101426] |
Wed, 03 December 2008 16:16  |
Mike Audet
Messages: 294
Registered: December 2008
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Senior Member |
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obably not get into anything to big again doing outside work I would like to start playing around again on some personal stuff for me and a few others. I still have a 2 MEC 4 Card system in a Magna and was running reaper along side of it on a dual core XP system with your newer drivers (as of 2-3 years ago anyway. I seem to have things at least opening back up and playing again but would like to catch up on the latest and perhaps in the coming months even do a newer comp build and would love to try using the I/O of the MECs with Reaper and such. Thanks again.
Matt| story wrote on Tue, 26 July 2016 13:24 | TBH, I don't use Cubase right now but I intend to do use it again with the Expert Sleepers Midi Interface.
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I got my MEC now working with Reaper.
Next thing i wanna test is running an ES-40 on the MEC's spdif port.Hello PARIS Friends:
Not to sound overly dramatic, but you have NO IDEA how happy/relieved I am to be able to post this to you. I have been using PARIS since 1998. Have a full MEC set-up. Have never updated software. (I know you all want to jump down my throat about that right now. Patience, please.) Recently, I had to transfer to a different PC (still Win98) because my old GATEWAY finally "gave-up the ghost". PARIS was running fine on the new PC for a while. Then, suddenly, it wouldn't load with the error message: Error in installing PASIS Engine - Error Code 40/28.
I tried for months to get on the Forum, but somehow I kept getting caught in Kerry's "SPAM Filter", and couldn't get ANYWHERE. I recently got a message through to Kerry and we have had 2 very pleasant phone conversations. As you all obviously know, he is a remarkably kind and talented person. He got me onto the forum and is working on getting the software drop-boxed to me. I understand it used to be available on the PASIS Wiki which is "broken". Perhaps Kerry is working on fixing that.
A recent divorce has left me over-extended (read: "broke") in the extreme. I am already saving my pennies to be able to afford Nick Audet's new drivers and tech support. At $50 that is a complete no-brainer and I will do it the MINUTE I can afford it. But part of my survival plan for not going INSANE in this cottage with no money was creating new music on PARIS. So for this minute, I think I just need to re-install the software, and of course, I can't find the discs (I think they were actually 3.5 inch FLOPPIES!!)
I have someone standing-by to assist me with backing-up the PC and re-installing the software. I just need to find an install-able copy. Is there anyone here who might be able to help me with that? If so, I shall be forever in your debt.
Thank you in advance (and for just BEING HERE with guidance),
Ken Swain Wondering if we all have opinions on a core or must have setup when it comes to plugins or effects while recording or mixing. Paris effects, directX or whatever.
Thanks allMy goto:
Recording:
Ultra clean - just plate reverb (mono) for who or whatever needs it during tracking.
Mixdown:
NoLimit 1.3 on global bus - uses card A resources
Mike's DP hall stereo for my room ambience
Mike's DP Vocal stereo for my vox's
Mike's predelay for pre DP vocal
Paris DSP comp using opto (per BrianT)- placed on several tracks
Paris DSP gate for toms
Paris Chorus and delays for instrument layering
Best,
Wayne
http://www.audio-audition.comI have an update.
I've spent the last few months chasing down a bug that surfaced when I went from a two card setup to a four card system. I wanted to test with more cards, and I'm glad that I did.
I think I've finally fixed it. I say "think" because the bug is truly random. Things could work perfectly 10 times in a row, or they might not work properly 3 out of 4 times. I've literally restarted my PARIS system hundreds of times in the last few months trying to track the problem down.
I found an ESP2 assembly language instruction that randomly just doesn't work. I've replaced that one instruction with two other instructions, and it appears solid. I've been restarting PARIS for hours now, and it's working. Hallelujah!
Has anyone with a multi-card setup noticed that every once in a while a non-master card's audio just doesn't play? This bug must have affected multi-card setups with the PARIS application, too. I've been more a PARIS programmer than a PARIS user for the last number of years. I honestly can't remember if this happened to me or not. I only had two cards back when I was recording a lot, so maybe I just missed it.
We're very close.
All the best,
Mike
OMG. I spoke to soon.
It looks like the instruction is fine. The problem appears to be that the main clock runs backwards some times, causing the instruction to be triggered more than once on some cards.
I'll keep testing...
Hello Mike!
The bug you are talking about happens in my 3 card system and is solved by switching an other card as master then back again. It is a bug i lived with for ten years and now I think off it as a friend.
All the best for your fantastic work!Thanks so much, anfallszonen!
I've been starting the ASIO driver over and over for days now, and I haven't had a single issue.
I think it might be finally done. I'm just going to test a little more to be sure.
All the best!
MikeYes. I thought I had been opening/closing a project too fast and the previous project had not thoroughly cleared. The whole submix would not play audio. Happened just this week.
And/or after adding or swapping an DSP insert on a channel, occasionally that channel/track would not play audio.
My fix in both cases was to quit PARIS, end the process in the task manager, and do a Windows restart and PARIS restart. This has cleared the problems every time.
Wayne
1 MEC (16 in - 8 out)
3 EDS (SWD expansion)
Win 7-64
I know the WIKI used to have a list of error codes but it has gone away for a while. Does anyone know how I can find-out what causes this error code? My PARIS won't start.
Also, I have reason to believe it may be hardware-related. It was suggested to me by a reliable source that ENSONIQ might still repair a malfunctioning PCI card for a reasonable fee.
Anyone know how I would look into this, also?
Thank you in advance for any info.Click on the link to thesoniq at the top of the home page. The will do professional work - not cheaply though. Ensoniq, probably not available as far as I know. Hi everyone,
it's become time for me to try to get Paris working in my windows 7 pc, but I've come up against the no PCI slots on my computer.
Need to find out what magma box or expansion chassis I need for my 2 cards.
I looked through the forum, and read Wayne's thread about basically the same thing, but some links were broken and I'm just not clear what I need to get this happening.
If anyone could spell out for me what I need, I would greatly appreciate it.
Would love to use Paris on the same computer I'm running Cubase.
Thanks all,
Michael Bliss
I think I got it.
I get a Magma 3 Slot PCI Expansion box.
With Mikes drivers I should be able to hook up paris on windows 7/64, and with 2 cards in the expansion box I should be good to go.
Am I missing anything?
Michaelwow, $ 1,500 bones for that expansion box, ok 
anybody have one they're looking to sell?Mike,
I shot you an email. I'll get you some info tomorrow. Running out the door right now to gig.
WayneOK Mike, here's what I'm using.
http://www.swd.de/
4xPCI expansion board (EXS-EX-1035)
202,30 euro = $215 US dollar
http://swd.de/oxid/index.php?lang=0&cl=search&search param=exs-ex-1035
PCIe card with cable to PCI expansion board (EXS-EX-1095)
37,70 euro = $39 US dollars
http://swd.de/oxid/index.php?lang=0&cl=search&search param=EXS-EX-1095
VirtuaVia no longer sells these items. SWD.de is in Germany.
They use PayPal and it took about a month for receipt. Shipment box was damaged, but parts worked fine.
I use a pawn shop XP computer ($35) which I completely gutted except the power supply and on/off switch and added a fan. I installed the expansion board in this. EDS cards go in from the bottom upwards. ie, EDS A is the bottom card, EDS B next card up and so on. The EDS cable is connected to EDS A, bottom card and goes to your PARIS interface.
In my PCIe win7/64 comp I installed the pci-e card. It includes a DVI cable (3 foot) which connects to the XP modded comp box.
Make sure you get and install Mike Audet's drivers before you connect all you new gear. They work great. If you end up with a couple extra bucks I recommend his DP vocal and room reverbs (both stereo), his pre-delay and his updated nolimit. I use these exclusively on just about every mix I do.
That's it. Just remember to turn on the XP box and Paris interface before Win7 start, so that your win7 comp sees the expansion card with your EDS's and will assign the Ensoniq scherzo drivers appropriately.
One side note. I use ProTools 12 (64bit) as my writing/sequencing app for solo or duo projects or my own stuff. I do not use PARIS at the same time. I use PARIS as my band tracking app because I love the near zero latency and 8-out aux external headphone mixes using 6 of the 8 outputs via my MEC.
If I want to use both apps in a project, I'll render the file in either app from time zero and import it to the other app. 2nd side note: I strip file header info from PT bounced files before and convert the waves to paf (24 bit only for mono files) before adding to PARIS. When going from PARIS to PT I just convert to wave. PARIS has no header info when converted to wave.
I've never had much luck running PARIS as a slave or master when running two apps so I just do it manually by converting files and importing or adding.
Hope this gets you to where you are going.
Best,
Wayne Carson
Audio-Audition Digital Studios - Las Vegas, NV
702-376-2088
www.audio-audition.com
Thank you Wayne,
Is there no way to get around using an xp box into the Windows 7/64 PC?
Like a chassis box, or a cheaper magma option?
but I'm ordering the expansion board and card with cable now. As well as the other stuff.
Thanks again,
Michael BlissNo cheaper magnum that I know of.
Any chassis will work. Basically, anything to mount the expansion board, a pwrspply and an on/off switch will do, even if it's on a piece of plywood.
I only had one issue with mounting the expansion board. Make sure the head of the screws that you use are not bigger/larger than the eyelet on the expansion board or else it will be grounded and won't work.
WayneGotcha, thanks again, really appreciate the info.
MichaelThere is a company in California that builds legacy computers, including Win98 and Win 7 machines. I am not affiliated with this company in any way, by the way. It would be fantastic if they could build a Win7 machine with a motherboard that could accommodate the eds1000 cards. I don't know if such a thing would be possible, but a good question to put to them. In any case, their info:
NIXSYS
9281 Irvine Blvd
Irvine, CA 92618
sales@nixsys.com
1-866-464-9797Hi all,
Long time PARIS user (almost 20 years) but just getting back on here after being absent for a while. I'm noticing some EDS cards for sale in various places that don't come with the ribbon cables (i.e. not EDS-1000X cards). Seems to me that buying some short 10cm long 16 pin and 10 ping cables on eBay (or wherever) would do the trick. Something as this, e.g.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Pcs-10cm-IDC-16Pin-Hard-Drive-Exte nsion-Wire-Flat-Ribbon-Cable-for-Motherboard-/321803810296?h ash=item4aed0075f8:g:zYAAAOSwfVpYuLGR
(not sure if that URL will show up in the post; if not search eBay for "16 pin ribbon cable 10cm" and you should find it pretty easily).
The ribbon cables are just straight through with nothing particular unique about them as far as I can tell.
So, am I correct here? Or is there something special about the ribbon cables that would make the EDS-1000X cards that much more valuable?
-Matt-
Is the appeal here that you avoid the cost of getting an external PCI chassis? Pretty sure people here are running Magma and other external chassis and hooking them up to modern computers via PCI Express cards. Magma, for example, has a PCIe card - http://magma.com/products/kits-and-parts/cards-and-backplane s/pcie-x1-host-card-for-desktop-pehifx1/. This PEHIFX1 card should be able to bridge any modern computer motherboard to an external PCI chassis and give you a bunch of PCI slots that can hold EDS cards. I know people did this for years here already. The difference is just that the card inside the computer is now PCIe instead of PCI. Still would have a PCI card inside the Magma chassis.
A quick search of eBay showed a 7-slot PCI Magma for $200 if you went with Buy It Now. Another $200 for a PCI and PCIe card and $100 for a cable to link the two and for $500 (or less if you wait the auction out) you'd have a system that you could always tie to the latest PC hardware with a 64-bit OS thanks to the drivers and the release of Paris 3.01.
I realize that's not as cheap as a computer from these guys you mentioned but I priced one out and got $685 w/o an OS ($840 once I threw in Win 7 64 bit pro). That's a system with a pretty old Pentium CPU and no great video features. Another $40 for an NVIDIA Quadro NVS 290 video card that can do dual head. My one fear would be you wind up paying more for less powerful hardware since you're buying older stuff that is becoming rare but at least it supports SATA drives so you shouldn't be locked in there. (Should have seen the prices people were paying for IDE drives that worked in older DVRs....)
FWIW, I scored a Magma 13 slot PCI system with PCI cards off of eBay for < $200 so you might be able to put together an external PCI system for a lot less than you might think if you are willing to be patient and keep searching.
Thanks for sharing the link. Interesting business model they are pursuing banking on legacy stuff that can't easily be migrated (like all of us here with PARIS....)
-Matt-Just to chime in here that I scored a 13 slot Magma chassis for < $200 off of eBay a few years back. There are deals on the Magma stuff that many here have used and you don't have to pay such a premium price but you have to be willing to wait it out and keep searching eBay (or Craigslist perhaps).
-Matt-
Thanks Matt, that helps a lot as well.
I wasn't sure what is and what isn't compatible, and didn't want to risk grabbing an older Magma chassis and then find it doesn't work. So thanks, that helps clear the murky waters some.
MichaelMichael,
NP. The Magma chassis were talked about a lot on the old Chuck Duffy forums that predated Kerry's forums. There was another competitor to Magma (I forget the name) but it seemed everyone said go with Magma and don't chance it. (VirtualVia came about later on). Magma was the only one ever certified by Avid for Pro Tools use AFAIK and I think the Avid PCI expansion chassis that were sold were really Magma chassis with a different logo. I think Brian Tankersley used a Magma on his GBT Studios 96 6-EDS card system.
I'm about to put my EDS cards into a Magma system hooked up with a PCIe card and get with the modern times (the new Win 7 drivers, Paris 3.01, etc.). I'm guessing it'll work but it would be interesting to hear from anyone on here if they are doing this and having success. There might be information in the ParisWiki as well but that appears to be not working right now.
-Matt-
P.S. A bit of dusting off the really, really old cob webs in my head says the other PCI expansion chassis back in the day was Bit3 but I think most people on the old forums that tried it found it didn't work and switched to a Magma.
Hi Matt,
I got my ribbon cables from thesoniq.com.
I hope this helps!
MikeThanks for the info Matt. I purchased Mike's driver for PARIS 3 under Win7 64bit, so it would indeed be good to stay current and save money, too. Mike,
Thanks. I had noticed they had some listed on the site but I didn't know if it was current or not (i.e. if they still have them for sale or not).
-Matt-
Just an update...I just finished more work on this. Thank you so much to those of you who are helping beta test this. I'm sure we'll find something to fix with this build. 
So, I realized that I had misunderstood something about the ASIO spec when I first started the project. It took about 4 hours to fix it. That revealed an issue with playback starting before the clock had settled on my MEC...I fixed that.
I just modified the patch bay code to shave 192 samples of round trip latency off. At 16 and 32 bits (24 takes more), Harrison Mixbus now reports 343 samples round trip latency at 64 sample buffers. I've had no crackles or garbled audio here. Hopefully, that will be confirmed by others.
I'll do my best to get this out ASAP.
All the best,
MikeHi Wayne,
I'M planning to do the same thing with the Exsys 1035, found a nice enclosure on ebay. How is it going so far with this configuration? I intend to use it with Mike's driver on Win 7.
Does it really increase the throughput audio latency, when using the Exsys?
Thanks!I just wanted to say Hello.
I've joined the club, by purchasing a used Paris Bundle 3. 
Always wanted a Paris system, and found one locally so I grabbed it. I'm only a hobbyist, but when I was looking for something to record with I found that the Paris system still offered a lot by today's standards.
(I will be purchasing Mike's Win 7 drivers once I get the PC)
Cheers
RaphWelcome aboard! We're small but mighty ;D. PARIS is a great DAW for recording straight-up analog; frankly very little has ever matched it for "replacement for two inch tape and a good analog board".
There are some important steps in configuration we'll walk you through when you get your computer, let us know when you're at bootup!Thanks!
The PC will be a completely fresh Win 7 install with a new HD for Paris and it mostly won't be connected to the internet after I set it up.
It's going to be dedicated to Paris and a SCSI card that I need for some other gear. I may also have an SSD for the Win 7 boot disk, as I have a 60Gb lying around here doing nothing.
Somebody on here recommended the HP Z400 workstation but I found the HP model (XW4600) that preceeded the Z400 has 3 PCI slots instead of the two on the Z400, giving me the potential to maybe run another EDS card at some point (need 1 slot for my SCSI card).
These workstations can operate as towers or on their sides which will allow the EDS card to be upright. They are spacious and come standard with 3 fans.
The XW4600 (Core2 Quad) is not as powerful as the Z400 (Xeon Quad or Hex) but there's not that much in it, and Paris was running on much less powerful PCs in the past, so it should be sweet.
I really appreciate the offer of help. It will be a couple of weeks at least before I can get it running due to a small renovation at my house taking longer than expected.
I'm not setting anything up gearwise until there's no more dust!Hi Story,
It's going great. I've got my Exsys1035 (4 slot board) installed in an old XP mid tower case that I stripped down. It now only has a PS, some fans, the 1035 with 3 EDS and a pwr switch.
The expansion chassis gets moved a lot. I have 2 identical MECs with 16-in and 8-out. One in each studio. I created a PARIS project template that I use going either way.
I run PARIS in studio #2 on a XP machine using the 1094 PCI and expansion box for band recordings of 16 tracks. Used purely as a tracking comp for bands.
I run PARIS in studio #1 on a Win7-64 machine using the 1095 PCIe and the same expansion box for editing, mixing, mastering. I use ProTools 12.4 for sequencing and bounce/export 24-bit wave files which I add to PARIS after stripping and converting to PAFs when I'm ready to track analog instruments and vocals.
Win7 is by far the winner. Much snappier, quicker bounces, solid. XP is solid but slower and I had audio glitches when trying to run 4 EDS. Editor would freeze and I'd have to reboot windows. I don't remember that happening in Win7. No problems with Win7/PCIe or XP/PCI with 3 EDS.
I use Mike's driver and efx's on both machines. Much thanks Mike.
I'm not measuring, but with 3 EDS I'm not experiencing any latency that I can hear.
Best,
Wayne Carson
Audio-Audition Digital Studios - Las Vegas, NV
www.audio-audition.com
Ok, I'm re-thinking the HP XW4600.
I ran one of those power supply calculators to see how close it would be on the 5v rails, and it looks pretty marginal, and well over if I had two EDS cards (definitely want to add another card). I have picked up in the threads here that the EDS cards don't like to be short on power. I know that often when you push a power supply hard it may still maintain the volts/amps at the right level, but start to get a lot of ripple which can upset digital components. So the problems could be intermittent and appear to be unrelated to power issues.
I figured no problem, upgrade the power supply. Not easy with HP using proprietary PSUs, and although people have got other PSUs working with mods I'm not confident. It might just be easier to pick up one of the Asus or Gigabyte boards that others have reported as working. Then I can add whatever PSU I want.
The other issue is that PSUs are moving more towards having big powerful 12v rails and regular levels on the 5v rail due to all the crazy gaming graphics cards that people are running these days.
Maybe I'm overthinking this! I think the HP XW4600 would run ok with a single EDS card, so maybe I should use that for a while - they are cheap as chips and the 475watt PSU in the XW4600 would have to be able to supply a full 25watt on a single PCI slot surely. It would also give me a Win 7 COA for a lot less than buying the software separately. I haven't even got a second EDS card yet anyway.Hi Raph, very interesting. I have also thought about the XW 4600, as I know colleagues of mine used this PC successfully for the Fairlight CC-1 Audio card. But of course that is a PCIe, so PCI might be another story and the EDS cards need more power than the Fairlight card.
I'm also thinking of getting an Exsys EX-1035 expansion board like Wayne did, and put it in a Mini Tower like the "CoolerMaster Silencio 352" with a beefy silent PSU. I have a RME 9652 and two EDS cards so the four slots would be just perfect.
I haven't made a decision yet and would be very interested in your further findings. Should the XW-4600 be sufficient, I might take that road as well. I definitely need 3x 5V PCI slots, so the only modern solution is the one Mike and Daniel took with the Asus Z97c Mobo, but then I'd have to build a new PC and I'm not really good at that, lol. Keep us updated, if you will!
So the XW 4600 PSU shows 110W combined power on the 3,3 and 5V rail (printed on the PSU itself, I saw it on a picture online). Are you saying this isn't sufficient for 2 EDS cards? I mean those would be 50W together, no? Getting confused.| story wrote on Sat, 27 May 2017 09:16 | So the XW 4600 PSU shows 110W combined power on the 3,3 and 5V rail (printed on the PSU itself, I saw it on a picture online). Are you saying this isn't sufficient for 2 EDS cards? I mean those would be 50W together, no? Getting confused.
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Yes, you're spot on - 110W on that rail. The problem is that the 3.3/5V rail supplies the Motherboard and RAM as well as the PCI slots. The XW4600 uses DDR2 Ram, and removing 4GB (2x 2Gb sticks out of the 4 in the PC I'm looking at) from the calculations seemed to give back about 15W!
Maybe the calculator wasn't that accurate, and to be fair the only option for adding the EDS cards into the calculation was using the option "High end sound card" but these seemed to add only about 8 to 10 watts each. It appeared that the XW4600 in the spec I'm looking at didn't have much power left to run stuff on the 5V PCI slots, this could be some evidence that the calculator was wrong - surely you can't buld a PC with 3 PCI slots and have it not be able to use them if you have max Ram and a couple of 5V drives, can you?
Expansion chassis would be ideal, and gives you a lot of future-proofing as you can use it on any PC with a PCIe slot and upgrade your PSU any time. Pretty costly though.
| story wrote on Sat, 27 May 2017 08:53 | I haven't made a decision yet and would be very interested in your further findings. Should the XW-4600 be sufficient, I might take that road as well. I definitely need 3x 5V PCI slots, so the only modern solution is the one Mike and Daniel took with the Asus Z97c Mobo, but then I'd have to build a new PC and I'm not really good at that, lol. Keep us updated, if you will!
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I'm pretty convinced that the XW4600 will run a single card, and that's all I will be able to test until I get my second card. I was talking to a guy on ebay who's selling a bunch of Paris stuff but after I asked a question about the EDS card he'd listed he never responded again, and when the card was relisted the auction became USA only - no more international. It could be a while before I get a second EDS card. Wayne thanks a lot! Sounds good. Question about the chassis fans:
Are those connected directly to the ATX PSU, or is there a possibility to connect them to the EX-1035 to control the speed?
I guess, if they are connected directly to the PSU the fans run at full speed all the time?
Also did you have any trouble to connect the Power Switch/ Status LED and Reset button cables to the EX-1035, like short Cable lengths or similar? Hi Story,
Fans run full speed and connected directly to the PSU. The 1035 board is very basic and only has a PSU connector and a power switch connector (in addition to the 4 EDS slots and the PCI/PCIe connector). That's it, that I can remember.
The XP case had a power switch in the front of the box and I used the wires from it. Only one status LED is PWR.
WayneHello all,
I recently fired up the old rig and I'm trying to move some files to my logic/uad set up.
I'm having an issue with any FX or EQ actually being rendered. All the crossfades are ok, multiple segments are combined well...no issues there, start times are all fine. But none of the EQ, EDS FX or native plugins fx are on the rendered tracks.
Has anybody else experienced this before? I don't think I ever wanted to render with FX before. This is the first time I'm trying it since I bought my brand new rig in 1998. So, its never come up before.
I'm still on WIN98
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all.
PerrinIt is impossible to render EDS effects and EQ in a "batch" like process. (Unless you do them in real time one track at a time, using the bounce to disk function.) It is, however possible to render the tracks with Native effects. Select one or more tracks, and (if I remember correctly) in the editor window, select "Render Track To disk with Native plugins. You might like to set a new record path, and save the project with a new name before attempting this.
The EDS effects/eq only apply themselves in a real-time "Bounce to Disk".Thanks for your input, Kim, I appreciate it.
I will test out the bounce approach this weekend. I couldn't get any fx to render native or eds when doing the render track option.
Perrin
I just released the ASIO driver.
Thank you so much to everyone who supported this project with testing, kinds words, and interest.
http://ensoniq.ca/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=27&prod ucts_id=46&osCsid=0cf0ceb611f24cf92459ec51f4187939
Happy Canada day!
All the best!
MikeHi everyone,
I just released the long awaited PARIS ASIO driver!
http://ensoniq.ca/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=27&prod ucts_id=46&osCsid=0cf0ceb611f24cf92459ec51f4187939
I've attached the manual to this post.
I can't believe that I thought an ASIO driver would be easy. I ended up creating a new voice engine, modifying the micro code that runs on the EDS cards, learning how to dynamically create MIDI ports, how to use the Win32 API to create dialogs, OSC, the Mackie HUI and Control protocols, and a whole lot about ASIO and the PARIS hardware itself. It's been fun.
The driver allows the use of MEC expansion cards, supports word clock, supports multiple cards, buffer sizes as low as 64 samples, and using the C16 as a controller.
Happy Canada Day!
MikeBrilliant, congrats Mike!
I'm travelling abroad at the moment but look forward to trying this when I get home next fortnight!
Kudos,
PeteWoohoooo! Happy Canada Day indeed!And just in time for my next two projects, which I'm very excited about - monster musicians!Truly awesome!A big thumbs up for hanging in there!!!!It's definitely possible to render selections or full tracks to disk with native plugins only. I do it all the time. Not so with EDS fx or EQ.
I assume you are running Paris V3.yes, i'm running v3
I did successfully render tracks to disk with native plugins. Still can't get the eds or eq to work...as you said...impossible.
The manual does say in CH 8, pages 80-81, that it CAN render with eds+eq. Is this just one of those things stated in the manual that has never worked, like midi?Congratulations Mike!!!
It is possible, but only in real time, using the "Disc Record" function enabled in the Global window. This is how I create final mixes, including all eq settings, EDS effects, native plugins, and any fader movements/automation. Basically, whatever you hear is recorded to disk.(Give the bounce a unique name so you can recognise the resultant mix) The bounced audio is stereo only, which can be imported back into the project by dragging it out of the audio bin and back onto the "playing field". Make sure the Time Lock tool is enabled.
One of the downsides of Paris is that the EDS effects and Eqs cannot be bounced other than real time. The upside, however, is that external hardware effects can be incorporated into the mix, including VST instruments from an external computer running a sequencer.
Think of the EDS fx/eq as external gear, being spun into the mix in real time.
Way to go Brother Mike!well done and thanks for persevering. Still haven't got stuff quite back set up after a move last year but this will be on the top of my list when putting things back together. Thanks Mike!I just wanted to add my congratulations, and especially thanks to you Mike and everybody involved for all your work on keeping Paris running.
My Paris rig is still in development (currently sourcing a motherboard) so I'm a way off even getting my head around what I could with the ASIO driver, but it's a great development! If there's anybody on here using a socket 1155 motherboard with either a Sandy Bridge Gen 2 iX-2xxx or an Ivy Bridge Gen 3 iX-3xxx CPU could you chime in here if you get a chance.
I just need to know that you have Paris running ok with these CPUs.
This is my final check regarding the mobo that I'm about to order. I have been in a Tech support email conversation with Intel for the last couple of weeks regarding native PCI chipsets.
They have recommeneded the Q77 chipset which can be found on certain industrial mobos, but they said I needed to contact the maker of my PCI cards to see if there's any compatibility issues with the Ivy Bridge CPUs.
There's no point bothering to try that!
This is the mobo I'm getting:
http://www.jetwaycomputer.com/NAF93.html
As they are categorised as "industrial" they are kept in production for at least 5 years, and offer native PCI for all the medical/science/embedded users who have big $$ in specialised PCI cards.
Once I get all the parts I'll do a build thread, and you'll be able to see the very cool case that I got which keeps the mobo horizontal, which will be good for my EDS cards (yes I now have a second card on its way to me!). Huge Congrats to you @Mike
Woooooow this is really huge mate  Very happy as many PARIS users and what a journey man. BRAVO BRAVO BRAVO
I know its a too early a bit but I hope that you're planning to make the x64 Host asio drivers man. That would be the icing on this amazing journey. And be able to use C16 with other DAWs like Studio One, would be amazing.
Well, lets let you enjoy the summer and some vacations shall we???
Again, huge thanks and Congrats man
P.S It's MY. I'll drop you an email sometimes soonHello everyone,
I'm in the middle of finishing my Christmas album and my trusty AMD rig just died. I do not want to use Win 10 so I'm staying on Win 7 and will grab a 4790 CPU but I was wondering which exact z97 motherboards are working well with the EDS1000 PCI cards?
Sorry to hear about your Mobo expiring.
Both the Z97a and Z97c are mentioned in this thread:
http:// paris.kerrygalloway.com/index.php?t=msg&th=15631&sta rt=0&S=c2f066dca0a9a26ddcdf9f838b68509eThanks so much for your kind words, guys. Hey guys,
A while ago, Kerry did an amazing, in-depth analysis of the PARIS OMF import and export implementation.
Does anyone have a link to this?
All the best!
Mike????
http://wiki.paris.kerrygalloway.com/wikka.php?wakka=ParisOmf
Thanks!Thanks for the info.  I uploaded the new pace update and Paris will not open now l get a couple of Windows. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
If I do a fresh install of 3.0 how do I get the codes? I have the discs from 2 systems I have but I think I need a fresh instal because of a computer malfunction. Is Ensonic still supporting new code?I'm only new at this, but my understanding is that there are no more unlock codes coming from ID for Paris 3.0
You have to either get Mike's Pace-free version 3.01 with new Win 7 driver or go back to using Paris version 2.x (on Mac OS9 or Win XP or earlier Win OS) which had hardware based copy protection rather than the Pace system. What OS are you going to run on your computer?
I'm sure some of the experienced people will jump in to clarify/correct this.Update: I am building a whole new PC based around the Jetway NAF93-Q77 mainboard. It will have an SSD boot drive and a WD Caviar Black for Paris audio.
Almost all the parts are here now. I will go ahead and get Windows running on it to make sure everything is working before even thinking about adding any EDS cards or Paris software.
Or are there some specific things I need to do when running the first ever install of Win 7?You know it has been so long since I had to reload Paris that I forgot that I bought Mike's drivers for Windows 7. I did a fresh install last night and everything is up a going again. I had a crash when I updated the new ILOK program and Paris went crazy so that was the reason for the fresh install. I think I am going to try Mike's new drivers and incorporate Reaper. Thanks for you reply.....RonHi Raph, I'm still following your project and posts. The Jetway looks sexy, I think they are especially build for using many legacy PCI cards. Looking forward to your results. I don't believe you have to configure Win 7 any special way except for whatever Mike has outlined along his driver installation.
BTW I'm just eyeing a used PCI Expansion box on ebay, and contemplate whether I should try it. My Paris rig is still just one card and I want to make it two badly.Hi mate!
Unfortunately I stuffed up my case fans order, so I have to change one of them for a different type. It's harder than you might think to build your own PC... the case fan situation has really been difficult to work out, and I expect that I have probably gone past the max required cooling point and into the waste of money zone.
Hope the Jetway works out well - 2 weeks of back and forth by email with Intel and they said it will work. The Pro-Tools guys are using these boards with success, so I figured Paris would be an even safer bet.
Yep, I'd like an expansion chassis for true future proofing, especially if it's PCIe to PCI rather than just PCI to PCI.
There are cards coming up here and there - don't know what happened to the guy who was advertising on here: "everything must go" I said I'd buy a few things off him and then never heard anything again. I found a card on Reverb, so I just need the ribbon cables now. Anyway first things first.
It's getting very close now, and thanks for the tip about setting up Windows.
Cheers
Mike if I have Protools 9 does this mean I can incorporate the Paris cards,Mec and C16s to work with Protools? Also do the cards have to be separated or can they remain tied as I have them now? What is the mapping does it incorporate the patch bay from Paris? Sorry to sound ignorant but I am when it comes to this stuff. It sounds great because I can get stereo out of the channels/effects I want which I can't get from Paris. By the way thanks for all your work I buy everything you do!I haven't tested ProTools 9, but I tested extensively with Pro Tools 10.
The patch bay is replaced by some drop down menus and check boxes, but the new dialog does basically the same thing.
I put a lot of time coding virtual Mackie Control drivers so that the C16 would work as a control surface with Pro Tools.
The only thing I couldn't work around is that Pro Tools needs to be restarted when changes are made in the patch bay. Pro Tools couldn't cope with changing I/O options while running.
I've attached the manual if you want to take a closer look at how things work.
I hope this helps!
MikeIs it possible to use parallel compression in Paris?
I thought I remembered this being discussed before but I couldn't find any forum posts covering this topic.
Hi,
I've never noticed this before, but it seems that any EDS inserts placed on the GLOBAL MASTER, are never saved with the project?
Is this a known bug?
Perhaps it's related to the fact that my master card is card 'D'. I recently added a fourth card.
Regards,
PeteHuh, hadn't noticed. Which version are you on?I'm on v3.0
I've tried other cards as the Master card and the same problem persists.
Not a huge issue, but wondering if it's the same for others.
Thanks,
PeteI have a 3 card system and the EDS plugins on the global inserts definitely save. Hey Parisites,
Here's a new single recorded and mixed entirely in PARIS.
I used nothing but EDS plugins.
Official release date is Nov 3rd, but iTunes pre-order is available now which includes a 90sec preview.
https://itunes.apple.com/au/album/save-me-single/id129213398 2
Would love your feedback on mix etc/
Best
PeteLike it!
Will there be any CD release? I'm pretty useless at itunes - still playing vinyl.
Also my Paris system is still not ready, and my monitors are in boxes, so I can't listen to it properly.Hello Paris users!! 
I was wondering if anyone has ever replaced the fan in the Mec, and if so, what might you recommend?
Or perhaps just disable it? It's too loud. I only have one card, an 8 in. (Would like an 8 out but those are hard to come by I guess).
Thank you!!Hello all;
Is there someone that can walk me through the setup of this driver (on a system that already has Paris software installed)
1) Do I need to take the old software off of my computer?
2) Mike A. what's the best install for this. Should I reinstall everything? Clean the drive and start over fresh?
3) I'm using Sampitude 11 pro, will it work fine with this software and can I still use the Paris Pro mixer with this software or am I limited in what the mixer will do now?
4) Well Windows 8.1 should work fine with this? or should I get windows 10?
I'm still old school (for the most part) 24 track 2" tape, I can use a computer but I'm no programmer. So updates like this can be a daunting tasks at times. So any help would be great. Thanks guys and thank you Mike for the new ASIO driver!
Jeff
I will probably be doing this with my MEC pretty soon.
If you pull out the stock fan you can probably get a part number and brand name to google the specs which will help in choosing a replacement.
I would recommend Noctua fans, as they seem to be a bit quieter than everything else. In your case (and mine too - not a lot of cards in my MEC) it probably isn't critical and you could go for a less powerful and therefore quieter fan than the stock one. I like the Noctua fans with the rubber corners on them (not the cheaper Redux versions). These are supposed to help reduce the noise from vibrations.Hello SummingStrange, thanks for the reply!!!
I haven't taken out the fan completely yet, but loosened it to see if I could see anything...and I couldn't really, other than it's 80mm and it's got 2 wires.
I am wondering if this would basically do the trick?
https://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NF-A8-PWM-Premium-Computer/dp/ B00NEMG62M/ref=pd_sim_147_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00NE MG62M&pd_rd_r=2BNNW85RGJ1TCENRVVBW&pd_rd_w=Wndor& ;pd_rd_wg=shtaY&psc=1&refRID=2BNNW85RGJ1TCENRVVBWIf the MEC stock fan has only two wires then it is the simplest type of fan there is (runs at full speed with no speed control, which makes sense).
The Noctua 80mm fan in your link would work, but you don't need a fan that is capable of PWM control, so I would get the Noctua NF-A8 FLX version. This is exactly the same fan but without PWM.
These fans come with a low noise adapter (LNA), so you can try the fan without it first and see how loud it is, then if you want to make it a bit quieter you can use the LNA. Basically the LNA is a short cable that you connect in between the fan and the power header on the PCB and it steps the fan's voltage down to a lower level so the it's quieter.
The only thing you need to figure out is which pins on the fan connector are the ones that use the plus and minus 12V and make sure they connect to the two pins on the header. Two pin fans are not common these days but a 3 pin fan is the same as a 2 pin fan but it has an extra wire to send an RPM signal back to whatever is controlling it, as most computer motherboards can control fan speed either by controlling the voltage sent to the fan (or by PWM if it's a 4 pin fan). Fan headers and plugs are standardised for computers to enable a 3 or pin fan to be plugged in to either 3 pin or 4 pin headers without getting the pins wrong - the connector will only fit onto the header one way. Not sure what the header looks like in the MEC, but I will try to have a look at my one. However, I'm sure the Noctua NF-A8 FLX fan will work.Great, thank you very much, I have ordered the Noctua NF-A8 FLX!Hi Jeff,
1) You don't need to remove any old software. The installer should update what it needs to update and leave the rest.
2) You don't need to do a clean drive. It should just work. If not, send me a note, and we can see what's gone wrong.
3) I didn't test Samplitude 11 pro, but the driver worked fine with every DAW I tested (with the exception of Mixbus 2.x. 3 and 4 work fine). As long as Samplitude Pro 11 is a 32 bit application, it should work. As for the PARIS mixer, the hardware can't be shared. So, if you load up a 32 bit ASIO host, it will take over the PARIS hardware and give you access to inputs and outputs. You can't run PARIS.exe at the same time. The mixing is done by the ASIO host.
4) Windows 8.1 should work fine. I don't think it has been tested on 8.1, but it works fine on Windows XP, Windows 7, and Windows 10. I'd be utterly stunned if there was some issue with Windows 8.
The biggest thing, though, is that I'm here to help. If you're comfortable with me remoting into your system, I can pretty quickly check file versions and see if I've missed something. I tested as much as I could, but obviously I don't have the resources of a large software company. If I missed something, though, I'll fix it.
All the best!
MikeIt sounds awesome! The writing and performance are great, too.
Sweet!I put a mix knob in by my version of no limit and the PARIS compressor. You can have parallel compression without having to worry about latency that way.
I'm a big fan of parallel compression.
All the best,
Mike
Did we sort this out, Ron?
There is a default copy of the PARIS cfg in the PARIS Pro folder. Just copy and rename Paris Backup.cfg to Paris.cfg
I hope this helps.
MikeI got a few ribbon cables from The at thesoniq.com a few years ago. He may still have them.
All the best!
MikeHey, Pete!
I've been thinking about your track.
Do you mind elaborating on hat mics, placement, pre-amps, and which EDS plugins you used and how? The recording sounds really good, and I think there is a lot to learn from in your work.
Of course, if these are trade secrets, that's fine, too.
All the best!
MikeHi Jeff.
FWIW, I purchased an old Beta version from Mike which didn't have the GUI it has now, (he actually gave it to me for testing, but I paid for it anyway by way of encouragement.....Mike does great work, and his EDS plugins are the bomb!), and it worked with Samplitude 8. I see no reason it wouldn't work with 11. I haven't tested it thoroughly though, as it was in its infancy, but results were very promising. I love Samplitude, and use it a lot for sound design and mastering, but still use Paris (Mike's driver), for multitracking and mixing bands. (Just love the near zero latency).
I intend to experiment with Samp and the asio driver further, once I get the driver in its current state.
Cheers,
Kim
Hi Kim,
I sent you a PM with the release version of the driver. I'm sorry that I didn't send it sooner!
All the best,
MikeHey Guys,
Yes Mike I got it working before I got your message. Took me a bit to figure it all out.
I was hopping to use the control 16 (still), but can't seem to get it talking to it. It does see it's there, the midi indicator lights up in Samlitude when I touch play, record. I know Samplitude supports Mackie software mixer. I thought you said somewhere is was going to still be able to use the c-16. I can buy a different one if needed. I might just buy the Raven Mticore Desk Bun2 with the two 27" touch screens. Might be the way to mix.
Yes, it works great with Samplitude 11 Pro just fine. Now to see it it will do two cards and two mecs for 32 tracks.
Sounds just as good if not better, so i'm happy.
Thanks Mike! 
JeffHi Jeff,
I don't have Samplitude to look at, but if you can get into the ASIO control panel for the driver, you can choose between Reaper OSC, Mackie Control, and HUI modes for the C16. It is probably just set to a different standard than Samplitude understands.
Keep me posted!
MikeWhat happened to Steve The Art Guy's Notes?
The link above is bad. There was a lot of useful stuff for Paris users. I hope we can get it back.Steve's excellent and useful notes became a big part of the Wiki; I've actually got (some of all of) them in text form here, and if we can get in touch with Steve and get his blessing I'd be happy to serve them on the wiki...Boy, we'd really have to conjure up some ghosts from the past. People could try to reach him, but I think you should just post his notes, if he contacts you to object, then pull them. I'd go with the slap on the wrist thing. Steve was a great guy, I don't think he would mind. He posted them for everybody to use in the past, so...
If Google can archive the internet and everyones posts with out permission, ...???Hello everybody!
I am an old boy (51 years old) ENSONIQ addicted. I met ENSONIQ in the 1991 when I went to a music shop to buy a KORG M1 and the seller asked me to try the SD-1. It was love at first sight! Now I have a wild bunch of ENSONIQ gears and a PARIS complete system (Mec, 442 interface, interface 2, C16) to enjoy music I release as hobbyist! I bought Mike drivers and now I have a PARIS record suite runnning on Win 7! PARIS is really enjoyable and not that difficult to use though really sophisticated.
Thanks for your priceless work which allows all of us to enjoy PARIS!
Here you are one of the last song I created using a TS-10, EMU 1820m for some effects and PARIS for mixing and recording!
Enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOsCmrhyanE
Mixing is a hard work! I hope to learn...Hello mate!
Like the track.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everybody! Hi Everyone,
I just found my old MEC manual, so I scanned it.
I also scanned the old warranty card and the EDS1000x manual.
The THD+N for the MEC are fantastic.
All the best,
MikeSounds great!Ah you're a top man!
That explains something about the DAC/ADC conversion and why it sounds good - Ensoniq used delta sigma type conversion.
This type of conversion is highly prized by audiophiles, and they go to great lengths to find old chips like the Phillips "Double Crown" DAC. Technically the numbers are not as good as newer digital technologies, but some people believe the music just sounds better with the older type of conversion.
I don't really understand this stuff, but the old chips were multibit delta-sigma and Ensoniq are using some type of 1-bit system.
This also makes it official that the MEC as standard is 20 bit.I was told by someone who worked at Ensoniq that the guy who designed the circuit used to buy audio hardware, decide what he liked or didn't like about it, and take it apart to find out why it sounded the way it did. He was like a mad scientist for audio.
Maybe he even took apart the Phillips "Double Crown" DAC and based the MEC on that. @SumminStrange: thanks mate! Glad you like that!
@Mikeaudet: thank you! For all your work too!!!
And happy New Year to everyone!
Sadly my EDS-1000 card suddenly stopped working after two weeks I bouhgt that from USA and used to re-record some music. It stops working after I power my pc and crashes after few seconds during system boot up while 442 interface stands wuth all lights up. Trying to start Paris program result in "error 1/1" and the card is not phisically detected from HWInfo64 program.
If someone has an idea about how to fix this I will appreciate a lot.
Yhanks in advance!Thank you, really interesting manuals!Hi, cool tracks. Regarding the error, try reseating the card in the PCI socket a couple of times. Also reseating the ribbons if you use multiple cards. I've had the same thing happen, and re-seating the card did the trick.Hello mates and thanks for tips!
I solved the problem: my PC case has a side panel which can be opened (Mac style) and the mobo is fixed on this panel. The EDS card in the pci slot is long enough to cover the sata slot that are behind the slot so when I closed the panel the sata cables bended the EDS card! They bended the card lightly but enough to make it not working anymore. I moved the cables and the card started to work flawless. Luckily Ensoniq builded rock solid gears!
I guess it's time to buy a magma since my three EDS need space 😊
Hi there.
Great you got it working again.
The EDS cards are pretty robust, but due to their size, it can be tricky to get them working properly, especially if the motherboard is mounted in a cheap case. Also, if you have multiple EDS's, the interconnects can be somewhat finicky to get right. Rock on!
Kim W.How did this fan replacement turn out?Thanks, I have not seen these in years.You can cheaply get the 10 and 16 pin ribbon cables on Ebay too.Hello everyone still using PARIS. I was wanting to see who would be willing to share their FX presets with me and everyone else.
| Will The Weirdo wrote on Wed, 17 January 2018 22:13 | How did this fan replacement turn out?
|
Good. Was sort of difficult...the screws were hard to reach without unhooking the whole panel the fan connects to.
The Noctua fan is quieter, though I think it would be very very quiet without the little screen that goes over it...I think that contributes slightly to some noise.
Are they of much higher quality than the stock ones? The stock ones seem rather strange...a bit clangy. The plate is okay, but the room seems pretty awful. I don't really like digital reverb in general though.
Anyone have any comparisons between the stock ones and the add-ons?
(I realize the add-ons are, together, only $145, but if they aren't for me, I'd just as soon put that to some other hardware verb...any recommendations on that, btw, that's not too pricey?)
Thanks!
| mikeaudet wrote on Sun, 26 November 2017 05:30 | So, if you load up a 32 bit ASIO host, it will take over the PARIS hardware and give you access to inputs and outputs. You can't run PARIS.exe at the same time. The mixing is done by the ASIO host.
|
Does a mixdown happen through the Paris hardware as it does with Paris?
The reverbs by Mike are in fact actually "hardware reverbs". Since the DP family of Ensoniq FX processors used the same chips as the EDS1000, Mike was able to port their algorithms to EDS plugins so you're literally getting some of the prime reverbs from those hardware units but with the benefits of them being inside your project (no going through two AD/DA stages using whatever converters the DP series had, plus presets saved inside the project so you don't have to recall them to touch up a mix). There's some lovely stuff in there - if I recall, some of the original EDS plugins were "lite" versions to reduce demands on the EDS card and Mike's restored the "full fat" versions of some of them.Hi All.
I have been in a world of pain over the last few weeks.
Had a Gigabyte mobo with four pci slots and four EDS's running sweet as a nut for several years, with WIN 7 64 bit, and Mike's drivers.
Just hoping for some feedback from users that have purchased the EXSYS EX-35 expansion backplane and PCI-X host card. (Still available from Germany).
Is it stable?
I cannot find a newer mobo with four PCI slots.
Hoping for some advice. (Mike??)
As Far as I know, the EXSYS is the same product as the Virtua Via.
Cheers,
Kim W.
Mike's Reverbs are fantastic! Do yourself a favour and get the Drum Plate, at the very least. I also have the vocal plate, which I haven't tested thoroughly, as my mobo has given up the ghost, and I'm working on solutions as we speak. (Nothing to do with the plugin...) I would also recommend the class A amp. It does a fantastic job of providing a real time Amp simulation during tracking with a D.I. signal. (A little tweaking is required). Generally, mixdown wouldn't go through the PARIS hardware. ASIO hosts just mix in the computer's CPU and send the result directly to disk.
All the best,
MikeIt's funny.
I always marveled at how my two mecs were so quiet.
Perhaps Ensoniq/Emu used louder fans in the latter years.Do Mike's verbs come with any presets?I'm building up my PARIS rig again, I decided against a new MB/CPU as it is way past overkill, so I'm picking up a used Gigabyte GA-P75-D3 motherboard with 4 PCI slots and a NOS Intel i5 3470 Quad Core CPU for under $200 for both on Ebay. I'll report back in a few months when I get it all together.Kerry, did you ever set up a preset page?I don't think so, but all parameters are easily adjustable and self explanatory. (reverb time, predelay, hi-pass, lo-pass etc. I never bothered to look, to be honest. It was easy to dial up what I wanted.
Cheers,
Kim.I know I'm asking rookie questions Kim, but it's been at least 15 years since I used a PARIS verb. I was using a Kurzewil KSP8 for my last 5 full time PARIS years before I moved to Atlanta. These days I'm deep into Nebula with a huge library and I beta test for AA. I'll be premixing with Nebula before mixing in PARIS so I just don't know how much I'll use any PARIS verbs.
Jumping back into PARIS has me rethinking everything but I love every mix I do in PARIS over what I do in other DAW's. The mid buildup is magic to me once you know how to use it as an advantage, and don't get me started about driving into the EQ trim for saturation! I have to fight in every other DAW for any kind of mid magic as there is always so much top end extension.
So to me PARIS is kinda like a vintage U47 or U67 in sound and these other new DAW's are like a modern sounding Sony C800G or Brauner VM-1. PARIS is thick, smooth, with a forgiving sonic character while other DAW's are surgical, precise and unforgivably sterile.
To each their own but I keep coming back to PARIS for a reason.Me too.
I tend to build mixes which end up too hot, over 4 EDS cards. (some DX/VST plugins need taming, by reducing their output). But the EDS plugins are quite forgiving. When using EDS send fx, I always reduce the send levels aprox -10 db, and make up on the returns by boosting by 10 db.
Then, if the mix is too hot, (too many red lights in the global section, I reduce each of the 4 EDS faders by the same amount. Some "overs", are OK. as Paris never actually clips, if the native plugins are sorted. (Keep Global Master at default 0db)
As a precaution, Every time I start a session, my default projects have the channel strip gains set at +3db. This gives a bit of a safety net in case things get over enthusiastic during recording. (I like to keep the meters showing high, and gives me "peace of mind" if the drummer hits harder than during pre recording level checks. (I ALWAYS have the meters set pre-fade, not post-fade. It's a lot easier to see what's going on, gain structure-wise).
I realise I've strayed a bit from the original post, but I do recommend mike's plugins. There are also a few "freebies" to be had.
One I use often is a plugin called "Pseudo". It can give a nice slight stereo spread to something like a vocal track. (I think this was released years ago before Mike's work, but well worth the price of $0. It is a send only plugin, and very low on resources. Can give a bit of a "psychedelic" feel to the vocal or any mono signal, especially through headphones).
Cheers,
Kim.
P.S. There is a little known bug in V3 which applies only when you re-load a project for further work. Some of the send returns can revert to being mono, and appear only in one channel. (This has occurred since the release of V3, and I think applies to any Stereo send FX). As a matter of course, every time I resume a mix when re-opening the project I toggle the stereo/mono switch on the return strips on all submixes.. This corrects the problem. To see what I mean, reload a project, and solo the returns before toggling.
| Kim W. wrote on Sat, 20 January 2018 03:48 | Mike's Reverbs are fantastic! Do yourself a favour and get the Drum Plate, at the very least. I also have the vocal plate, which I haven't tested thoroughly, as my mobo has given up the ghost, and I'm working on solutions as we speak. (Nothing to do with the plugin...) I would also recommend the class A amp. It does a fantastic job of providing a real time Amp simulation during tracking with a D.I. signal. (A little tweaking is required).
|
Maybe I will try one out. I was thinking of getting the room verb (for drums) because the stock one is so odd. But is the drum plate a lot better?
Thanks everyone for the replies!
| Will The Weirdo wrote on Sun, 21 January 2018 07:45 | I know I'm asking rookie questions Kim, but it's been at least 15 years since I used a PARIS verb. I was using a Kurzewil KSP8 for my last 5 full time PARIS years before I moved to Atlanta. These days I'm deep into Nebula with a huge library and I beta test for AA. I'll be premixing with Nebula before mixing in PARIS so I just don't know how much I'll use any PARIS verbs.
|
So the Nebula reverbs are as good as the Kurzweil?
The Nebula verbs are special and IMHO the best plugin verbs, but I believe hardware verbs still are superior to plugins.Good to hear that you got the new fan installed, and it's working well.
I will probably end up replacing my fans - they're pretty old now.| Will The Weirdo wrote on Thu, 18 January 2018 17:19 | You can cheaply get the 10 and 16 pin ribbon cables on Ebay too.
|
Hi, thanks - I saw those on ebay - you reckon they are ok to use?
Assuming that the Ensoniq factory cables are straight pin to pin cables they should be good. I guess I should just get a set and give them a try.
They have various lengths available, but it would be best to go with the shortest (4 inch) cables, as the cards will be next to each other anyway.What CPU and socket are you using? I thought you might be on Generation 4 - Haswell? Would be nice to be able to re-use your CPU.
The Jetway NAF93 industrial mobo is still in production and it has 4 PCI slots native off the Q77 chipset (or Platform Controller Hub in Intel's language).
Only problem is that mobo is Gen 2/3 - Sandy/Ivy bridge, so this means Core i7-2600 or i7-3770 etc.
You can still find new Ivy Bridge CPUs and a few Sandy Bridge i5s.
I'm (still) about to commence my Jetway NAF93 build with a Core i7-2600K. Apologies for the fact that I can't guarantee the compatibility of the mobo - delays are due to renovations on the house; I have nowhere to set up my gear until they're finished.
The way things are looking though, the external chassis looks like the best way to go for the future. A chassis connected using an x4 or x8 PCIe slot would be ideal, as I don't know if the 250Mb/sec (theoretical) x1 lane would end up being a bottleneck with multiple cards.Update: There is a Jetway NAF95 mobo that takes a Haswell CPU and it has four PCI slots.
However, these PCI slots are not native to the chipset (Q87) on this mobo, so it uses an Asmedia bridge chip to convert parallel PCI to serial PCIe. There were problems with some bridge chips early on with certain audio software - people were unable to run more than 4 "Masterverbs" on a mix without digital breakup when previously they had been running 12 or more with native PCI.
I have no clue what these "Masterverbs" are, but it was enough for me to understand that there was a bottleneck with audio throughput when using bridged PCI. That is why I went for the specific board with native PCI. But there's plenty of people using bridged PCI now, unfortunately no documented users with multiple EDS cards running Paris.
The Q77 chipset was the last one to offer a native PCI bus on the actual chip. Intel have ceased all support for PCI now.Thanks all.
I am leaning toward the Exsys expansion backplane for futureproofing purposes. I have a newer AMD mobo (can't remember the model offhand, and a quad core AMD Phenom processor.
It only has two PCI slots, which is not enough. It has a couple of 16x PCIe slots, however. This may be the way to go, but will look into the mobo suggestions above.
Cheers,
KimThose ribbon cables are nothing special. I have made my own in the past using separate crimp type connectors, cable and a small vice. If you do this, make sure you look closely at the cable entries, and if possible use a continuity tester or multimeter,and make sure there are no shorts. (Use a pair of needles or pins as probes.
KimI honestly can't remember how far I got on this plan. It sure would be great to have an organized central way to share presets. Let me do some thinking on this.I also plan to get the Exsys like Wayne did. He seems to be alright with it. So let's see.| SummingStrange wrote on Mon, 22 January 2018 21:32 | Good to hear that you got the new fan installed, and it's working well.
I will probably end up replacing my fans - they're pretty old now.
|
Thanks again for the help with that!
If someone could please PM me as wellNice groove. Keep on writing.Hi Kim,
Just returned from vacation.
My SWD EX-1035, EX1094 and EX1095 are working great using and old gutted comp box as the expansion chassis running 3 cards. Studio 1 has a Win7-64 with Mike's PARIS and drivers. Studio 2 has an XP box with Mike's earlier PARIS and drivers. Chassis is moved back and forth where-ever it's needed.
See my posts back in 2015. Search SWD and filter Wayne and you'll find them.
WayneThanks guys! Thanks, Wayne.
Good to know you have had success with this combo.
Cheers,
KimThere are a fair amount of things that are bizarre with Paris...as I think of them or they happen, I'll try and add, and see if these things happen to all of you, or maybe it's just my system.
1. Adding a Paris effect....often a loud burst of noise...sometimes a giant clunk type sound, other times a sort of hissing electronic sound. Wtf?
2. Last night I was trying add an insert on a channel and go out the s/pdif digital out to another computer. So in the connection window, I connect the channel's insert to the digital out and the digital in back to the insert. Than select the external option in the mixer channel...weird things: I can still hear the "dry" track along with whatever the insert adds...and 2 after setting this up, when I bypass the external option, or completely remove it even, the sound still goes out...only when I disconnect the connections in the connection window does the sound stop going out the s/pdif.
The first five Paris systems for Scandinavia arrived at the importer in Oslo 20 years ago this week...one of them came straight
to my place. Stopped on the way home and picked up my first pc to
go with it...what a knucklehead...remind me to never do anything
like that again. And thanks to our intrepid Canadian contingent,
Paris at 20 is still a great system to work with and make music. It was 20 yeas ago for me when I went with PARIS over a 3 ADAT XT and Trident console setup. PARIS took me a good 6 months to get comfortable with as my first DAW..... and I still use it today.
Ensoniq made one hell of a tool in PARIS, may it rock on for another 20 years!I've just unplugged the fan.
only a 8in and 8our in the MEC.
it has been working like a charm for hundreds of hours.
it maybe not the best advice on earth though.
cheersSo...I've been working on a few things...one of which is laying the groundwork for a new scherzo to support a 64 bit ASIO, but I took a bit of a detour and decided to see if I could clean up a couple of things in the 32 bit ASIO...and....
I got 32 sample buffer sizes working!!!
 | mikeaudet wrote on Tue, 20 February 2018 07:54 |
I got 32 sample buffer sizes working!!!
|
Great news Mike, I'm patiently waiting for the 64 bit ASIO..... and you should have a donate button somewhere on your site main page for folks to support your efforts!
yes
make a donate
Instead of "donating", just buy Mikes's plugins. They are far superior to the stock Paris plugs. You won't be disappointed! But then, if you are only going to use the asio driver for other programs, The "donate" button could be useful.
Me? I still use Paris (for recording and mixing) and love Mike's DP-4 ports. I use Samplitude for mastering and sound design. However for me, creating a nice lush mix,is done within Paris itself.
Hi Mike,
i still wait for this one since cubase 9.0 was released.
The Old Asio 32bit have done there work very well, but all the plugins of works only with 64bit now... great news .
Best regards to community !
DanHow does one sync Paris to a hardware sequencer? Is it reliable?
I know there was a reference to sync in the old blogspot wiki but that is now down.Can I get the link as well, please?Hey folks!
Last time I checked this site was down and so glad its back up.
And seeing @Mikeaudet keep on pushing further development. This is amaaaazing.
Hey Mike, its MY your buddy from Canada MTL. Its so great to hear that you're working on the ASIO x64 bit version man. This is going to be epic when you'll finish it up. I'm really awaiting for this impatiently to really be able to jump back in Paris and explore back the beauty of this DAW.
And yes I agree with @WillTheWeirdo, a Donation button would be amazing as well.
I swear if a few of us would like to put money and take PARIS DAW code and develop it back up and make it more feature oriented for 2018, I'd be part of it and would invest what I can.
Its such an amazing sounding system that its hard to not look at it and want it to come back to life fully. Thank God we got Senor Mike doing the impossible possible.
Can't thank you enough.
Cheers
+1 here for a link to the PACE free .exe
I need to clean the dust of Paris and fool around again.
-PhilCould I get a link alsoSorry folks, we can't link that here.
While the status of PACE-free Paris is still in dispute, we don't want to run the (even extremely minimal) risk of posting or linking it, either publicly or privately. It would be damaging to the community to risk having this forum taken offline. Even if IMHO the legal grounds for taking it down were extremely shaky and could be easily gutted like a flounder in court, we could still be down for a while.
You'll just have to talk amongst yourselves privately about those sort of things while the status clarifies. I am surprised that ID took down the PACE-free version of PARIS from the forums. A couple of weeks ago I spoke on the phone with their CEO Tim Areson who told me that they can no longer provide me with the PACE key as they no longer had support for it themselves. He suggested that I might need look "elsewhere on the internet" for a solution of my problemBump
Any ideas?Hi.
The only reliable way I have found is to slave my second computer running Cubase via ADAT sync. I have an ADAT card in one of my mecs, and an RME multiface with ADAT sync in hooked up to the Cubase comp. That probably doesn't help you, but I'm interested in what others have to say.
Cheers,
Kim.| damien wrote on Mon, 12 February 2018 12:59 | I've just unplugged the fan.
only a 8in and 8our in the MEC.
it has been working like a charm for hundreds of hours.
it maybe not the best advice on earth though.
cheers
|
Thanks, I may try that! I only have one card...how hot could that be?
Just to keep this going... 
not so much a quirk, but does anyone else find the headphone jack on the Mec to be awfully quiet?
When doing for example, a vocal overdub, I have not only the headphone volume at full always, but have to turn up the monitor control quite a lot, which starts to go into distortion, just to get a decent amount of volume. Or turn up the track fader(s).I don't recall - that might have been why I decided to go with a headphone amp a long time ago, I can't remember| kerryg wrote on Fri, 30 March 2018 16:53 | I don't recall - that might have been why I decided to go with a headphone amp a long time ago, I can't remember
|
Guess that would be a good thing to have! Any recommendations?
Thanks!
I have a love/hate relationship with the Behringer HA4000 and HA8000. Cheap as chips but I'm now on my third one.
If all you need is a single set of cans, but much louder, I'll bet there's at least a handful at your local music store for peanuts, like this little guy: https://www.amazon.com/Mackie-HM-4-4-Way-Headphone-Amplifier /dp/B079C8MLG8/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1522456076&sr= 8-7&keywords=headphone+ampI've got a couple of things up on the PARISWiki -
http://wiki.paris.kerrygalloway.com/wikka.php?wakka=ParisSyn c
Will you be slaving your hardware sequencer to PARIS? What is it and what sort of sync can it read?
Thanks!
Hmmm - I have no issues with the headphone volume. Usually set it between 1 & 2 o'clock max. And I don't run mixes too hot. I also set the solo level at -11.
In the Patch Bay ("B") do you have the hardware outputs on the MEC set to +4? (Pro)
TedIt is remarkable.| Ted Gerber wrote on Tue, 03 April 2018 04:53 | Hmmm - I have no issues with the headphone volume. Usually set it between 1 & 2 o'clock max. And I don't run mixes too hot. I also set the solo level at -11.
In the Patch Bay ("B") do you have the hardware outputs on the MEC set to +4? (Pro)
Ted
|
What sort of headphones? I have a few pair, not sure the ohms and all that, but they all seem about the same volume-wise.
The solo level?
I do have everything set to +4.
Thanks!
Will ASIO driver in future support 48 in and 48 out (2 fully loaded MEC units).
I would love to use good old Paris as a multitrack recorder with my MCI console .. 24 is minimum, 32 is good, 48 would be perfect.Each EDS card can support 24 simultaneous streams of audio between the EDS card and the PC. A stream is either an input or an output.
So, you can have 12 inputs and 12 outputs per MEC, and the driver supports 8 cards, though I've only tested with 4 because that's all I have.
To get 48 inputs and outputs simultaneously, you would need 4 cards and 4 MECs.
48 inputs or 48 outputs can be done now with two cards. You just have to change the selections in the control panel and use all the built in MEC I/O (including S/PDIF) and use an IF2. The MEC can only have two input and output cards active at once, for a total of 16 inputs and 16 outputs from expansion cards.
It might be possible to get 32 streams per card now that I've disabled the stuff that transfers mixer updates and meter information in the latest (not yet released) build of the ASIO. But, that would be the outside limit.
All the best,
MikeThanx a lot.
Great work.
I have 2 more questions,
1. Are there any plans for osx Asio drivers. That would be mind blowing to use reaper and paris on mac.
2. Is it maybe possible to use eds dsp power ane plugins in reaper like for example uad cards work?
| mikeaudet wrote on Fri, 13 April 2018 07:24 | Each EDS card can support 24 simultaneous streams of audio between the EDS card and the PC. A stream is either an input or an output.
So, you can have 12 inputs and 12 outputs per MEC, and the driver supports 8 cards, though I've only tested with 4 because that's all I have.
To get 48 inputs and outputs simultaneously, you would need 4 cards and 4 MECs.
48 inputs or 48 outputs can be done now with two cards. You just have to change the selections in the control panel and use all the built in MEC I/O (including S/PDIF) and use an IF2. The MEC can only have two input and output cards active at once, for a total of 16 inputs and 16 outputs from expansion cards.
It might be possible to get 32 streams per card now that I've disabled the stuff that transfers mixer updates and meter information in the latest (not yet released) build of the ASIO. But, that would be the outside limit.
All the best,
Mike
|
You wanna say that with one mec and 4x8out cards we could have lets say 32 24bit outputs to console if inpuys are not in use...? That would be mmmmm peefect.
I have been a lurker here the forum. I have been using 3 EDS card 3 MEC 48 track / input system from 2005 to 2016. It ran great on Win 98 with 4 19" monitors. We never could get it stable on Win XP. Then our landlord had a water leak problem and after one month of us not going to studio Mold took over the space and we had to close the studio. Sad but true.
OK I hate to ask questions but I need a 16 channel system for daughter wedding music. I have XP with 2 EDS cards that was a remote recording system for one client. It worked well. So I grabbed it out of storage booted and defragged the hard drives. Reseated all cards and memory. I have spent 2 days and cannot make the system output audio to MEC outputs, Headphone outputs, or MEC 24 bit cards. What gives. Yes patchbay I think is correct. Audio tones in imported in to 3 tracks show on editor, big mixer and master mixer.
I must be missing some button somewhere?
Just a side note I had lightning hit the studio and it wiped out the EDS card C16 interface port. I know the card works for all other functions. Yes When I find another EDS card in storage I will try that card. So do not freak about me being honest on a damaged card. So please provide a mouseable solution as the C16 is not working on the card I have this afternoon.
Thanks;
adrianhOk, let's start with eliminating the simple - open the patchbay and check which pair of outputs you've got cabled up from the mixer and monitor outs. This is usually the first thing to bite me when I reassemble a systemOk, I see you verified the patchbay - did you reinstall any PARIS software? And are you using Mike's current drivers?
These two bugs can make PARIS refuse to pass audio -
http://wiki.paris.kerrygalloway.com/wikka.php?wakka=ErrorPla ysWontRecord
http://wiki.paris.kerrygalloway.com/wikka.php?wakka=FreebieB ug
Yes mixer out is connected to 1 - 4 on MEC
I SHOULD not need to reinstall drivers.
But it is a PC and we all know......
I will reinstall drivers.
I have an older working win98 recording PC that I will use to substitute for PC WHEN I find it......
Thank again. I will reply back soon. When I do ALL things suggested.Have you bought Mike's drivers? Best $50 you can spend on PARIS, kills a host of bugs!Hi folks,
I'm pleased to share my band's new album "First World Blues" with you all.
I tracked and mixed it entirely in PARIS on Windows 10 using Mike's driver and effects.
The only non-PARIS plugins used were some UAD compressors (1176, LA-2A). All the reverbs are the Paris plugins that Mike did.
Official release date is May 18th, and it will be on all the major streaming platforms then, but in the meantime the iTunes store lets you preview 90 seconds of each song:
https://itunes.apple.com/au/album/first-world-blues/13741716 10
(click the view in iTunes button to access the previews on a desktop computer)
Else, there's a little promo video here, but it only has 5 of the songs:
https://youtu.be/-GAQlPbmniE
So happy to be able to still be using PARIS after all these years, thanks guys!
Best
PeteHi Mike
32 streams per card.. hmmm ... i thought even more is possible.. like 48 since it can see 24 in and out per MEC loaded with 2 in and 2 out cards!
so .. it would be great for example if it would be possible to have next configs per MEC
2 in cards and 4 out cards loaded MEC
so we can set for example ...
- 16 in 16 out on tracking (selected 2x8 in cards + 2x8 out cards )
- 8 in 24 out on tracking (selected 1x8 in cards + 3x8 out cards )
- 32 out with 4 out cards (for mixdown on console selected 4x8 out cards ) .. in any of that cases its 32 streams in total per EDS + MEC!
Maybe to manage that by some kind of presets to select in asio setup! ..or something
another thing is ... I would die for APPLE OSX ASIO drivers .. that i would pay in gold !!
There's nothing I can do about the hard limit of card streams. But, they can be switched in the control panel now to 24 in or 24 out per EDS card. I could add some kind of preset support. That would be interesting.
Lately, I've been working hard on getting a 64 bit version running. I have a lot of testing to do, and there is an issue I want to fix in the scherzo design that works but should be better, but....
I got Reaper x64 to play back audio from the PARIS ASIO today.
Too cool!
 WOW great !!!
thanx for all work Mike!
any chance to make ASIO for OSX maybe
that would be GOLD!
I would like to run Reaper and paris on OSX!That's great news Mike, x64 is the future.... your hard work is appreciated!Hello @Mike
Wooooooooooow, speechless I must say, now this is more than a great news. Its pure joy man. Your hard work is highly appreciated and words can not describe how thankful & lucky we are to have you in this amazing journey.
Really looking forward to try this with Studio One x64 bit.
Keep up the great work
MYTo answer an earlier question that I've been meaning to answer, it's not really in my plans to create a way to use the EDS1000 cards to load the Ensoniq effects. The source code for the effects loader was lost when Ensoniq shut down. The time it would take to reverse engineer the old code and rewrite it for 64 bits would be better spent doing something else, like maybe porting some of the effects to VST.
I'll try to make a longs story short - I found some new functions that were added in Windows 10 to allow for lower latency streaming. I've roughed some code in, but I haven't even compiled it yet. The reason I haven't tried to compile it is that Microsoft didn't document some of it. I got on a mailing list for Windows audio drivers to ask if anyone knew about this one new function that allows registering IRQs and threads as "streaming" resources. Nobody knew. I've emailed Micorosft's audio guy, and he hasn't replied yet.
But, the mailing list folks did know that there is a problem with the memory manger in Windows 10 - it's been there for 2 years - that if you wait long enough - and it could take a couple of hours - Windows 10 will block for upwards of 200 milliseconds. I didn't notice this in my testing, but I may have just gotten lucky in the sense that Windows didn't block on the CPU the driver was running on. Or, it might be specific to some chipsets. I'm not sure. This problem makes Windows 10 completely unsuitable for any kind of real time work, including audio. There are rumours that this was fixed in the April update, but I haven't heard anything for sure yet. To compare, Windows 7 blocks for 2-3 ms at most.
So, if I can't get these new functions to work and if Microsoft hasn't fixed this memory manager issue, I may start on an OSX driver. We'll see. My next step is using the PARIS mixer to implement direct ASIO monitoring so that we can get 64-ish sample latency no matter what the buffer size is for monitoring during recording. This, of course, depends on getting the 64 bit existing version debugged and ready first.
So, that's as short a long story as I can tell.
wow
great ,,,
I live for OSX driver !!
Stunning @Mikeaudet
Wooow having the "PARIS MIXER" to implement direct Aiso monitoring... that will be just amazing and I'm positive you'll make that happen.
Man Mike, when(if I may ask) do you think approx we should expect a first trial version of the x64 bit Win Asio Driver?
Now that we're talking x64 bit, i'm super excited and can't wait to turn my MEC up.
Keep up the amazing work,
Best,
MYThanks, MY!
I should clarify - I'm not going to code a mixer app. I'm just planning to make something that takes the level and pan position that gets passed via the ASIO driver to implement direct monitoring. I want the thing to be simple to use. A second mixer is just a mess, in my view.
I'm not sure about a timeline. I have an online course starting Thursday, and I'm not sure how demanding it will be. I also haven't tested anything beyond playing back a two tracks of audio (Ian North - Beautiful City, one of the best songs ever) and opening the control panels. I have a ton of testing to do for the C16 (Midi and OSC), audio inputs, selecting channels, etc, etc. Plus, I haven't ported the ADAT card driver to 64 bits yet.
I'll have it ready as soon as I can, though. I'm excited to use it, too!Guys. Support Mike.
He's doing great work.
If you don't want to donate, at least buy some of his DP4 plugin ports. They are far superior to the the stock EDS plugs.
Even if you don't use them straight away, some of you will go back to the sweet PARIS sound eventually, and his plugs will make your mixes shine more than ever. Do it whilst you can. Mike can't keep up his efforts forever. A little love, could give him some incentive to keep up his work.
Cheers,
Kim
Sorry Mike if this seems like ass kissing, but I for one, am a huge fan of your efforts.Sounds great Pete - nice work!wow...great work...would definitely pay for the 64bit "update" as the 32bit seems to be working great with the MEC's. Finally been doing a little bit of personal tracking and testing again and seem to be using reaper more and more myself especially with Superior Drummer 3 now and some soft synths and would love just to move over to all 64 bit on my windows 7 machine. Thanks again Mike!| mikeaudet wrote on Tue, 01 May 2018 15:10 | Thanks, MY!
I should clarify - I'm not going to code a mixer app. I'm just planning to make something that takes the level and pan position that gets passed via the ASIO driver to implement direct monitoring. I want the thing to be simple to use. A second mixer is just a mess, in my view.
I'm not sure about a timeline. I have an online course starting Thursday, and I'm not sure how demanding it will be. I also haven't tested anything beyond playing back a two tracks of audio (Ian North - Beautiful City, one of the best songs ever) and opening the control panels. I have a ton of testing to do for the C16 (Midi and OSC), audio inputs, selecting channels, etc, etc. Plus, I haven't ported the ADAT card driver to 64 bits yet.
I'll have it ready as soon as I can, though. I'm excited to use it, too!
|
Hi Mike,
Take your time and it will be ready when you'll have it ready. I'm really looking forward to test this once you have something to get it tested. I have my MEC plugged, awaiting to fire it up and test it.
Best of luck mate, hi all-
I'm trying to sync an alesis adat M20 to my Paris adat card, and am having no luck. the opticals lock just fine, but Paris won't recognize the M20 via the sync cable. I've tested the cable, and it works just fine, when I use it to sync 2 adat machines together. I'm only trying to sync up the M20 with paris. there is no other adat machine in the chain. if I put a termination adapter on the out sync port of the M20, think that might do the trick? perhaps an update of Paris drivers might do the trick? anybody know how to solve this problem, or can even guess at what the problem might be? I guess there's always the possibility my Paris sync port isn't working, for some reason of damage, physical or otherwise, even though the opticals are working just fine, just as they should, with no problem?---
any help/thoughts at all, would be much appreciated--- would really like to sync up the fabulous, though outdated, M20, to my endlessly more fabulous Paris rig---
thanks
harry eNice, I like your track, good job.
Hello everyone,
As along time PARIS user I'm at a crossroads.
I just purchased an API The Box for my production studio. I use Studio One v4 as my creation DAW and could easily stem out to The Box, or I can possibly hunt down 8 out or ADAT cards for PARIS. The PARIS cards are harder to find these days and PARIS does not allow tracks to be grouped, so I'm at a crossroads as to which way to go.
PARIS if I can find 4 output or ADAT cards or Studio One with one of the bazillion modern A/D D/A options available today.
PARIS would be much cheaper if I can find the cards, the modern route would cost more but easy to accomplish.
Any opinions?Hi Will
I'm sure you know this but I would have thought you can group tracks thru the Auxes.
Set up the Patch Bay for the physical connections (FX -> MEC Modules -> FX) then set the Auxes to "External" and send the various tracks to each depending on desired grouping. Volume and pan can me managed independently.
This way you're not limited by number of cards (except of course with regards to the number of tracks you have to send in the first place).
Or am I missing something?
TedHey Ted, thanks for the feedback, if I can find some 8 out cards I'll give it a go using your aux method. Unfortunately finding 8 out cards has been unsuccessful making me rethink using PARIS moving forward.
Sad times but after 20 years I'm at a real crossroads as to what to do but it's not looking good for PARIS in my studio.Kind of the same boat here. I have slowly been getting my studio back together over the last year after taking about a 4 year break and a move. I wanted to keep using PARIS on a newer comp and have it co-exist with Reaper. I installed all of Mikes latest and everything seemed to function but got a little frustrated when I seemed to have lost all my effects presets, delay comp settings, etc during the updates. I also wanted to keep moving forward and stay in the 64 bit world. Well, I decided as a trial run to go in a different direction with a few original tracks with some guys I have been jamming with lately and leaving PARIS out of the picture. I recorded and edited in Reaper using my RME 9652 as my interface as we are doing pretty much only a few channels at a time as Superior Drummer 3 was used for drums. Harrison had a great deal on the 32C v4 with all of their plugs for $149 not long ago so decided to make the leap. I mixed pretty much with all Harrison plugs and the console EQ and comp and seemed to be trouble free for me with about 60 tracks about 6-7 aux busses. I hate to say but I still have 1 MEC hooked up but am about ready to put it and my Magma up. 
https://soundcloud.com/mattbarber-2/colorsGot any ADAT or 8 out cards to sell?PM sentIt's with a heavy heart that I have decided to move on without PARIS and I'm selling my whole rig in the classifieds.
PARIS was my first jump into a DAW based recording system back in 1998 and I was able to advance my career because of PARIS, including my first national single and later over 1 million Soundscan sales from my PARIS work.
My recent API The Box purchase needs made sticking with PARIS a burden, but I have to move forward and think about the next decade as I still have a lot of music left in me.
It was great getting to know all the great PARIS users over the years, I've appreciated learning from you all.
Stay Blessed,
Will "The Weirdo" WilsonThanks so much for your great attitude and advice over the years. Hope you are super successful moving forward!!
Best
TedAll the best and quite a run. I bought my first rig in 1999 based off the advise of a friend of BT's when I was living down in Nashville. I am very fond and nostalgic myself but it is what it is. I am also a B767 pilot by trade and it is sort of like seeing a great airplane in it's last days. I got to fly the 727 for a time and miss the 3 holer sometimes and in certain circumstances it can be used by someone but the airlines will never see her or the pax 747 again. PARIS has the same place for me and will always be that old shoe that always felt good for so long.
Cheers!I'm going with an Antelope Orion 32 via an RME HDSPe Madi card i/o into my API The Box as my next setup. Should be a solid sounding setup with a workflow designed to get work finished, lol.I recently had a band I recorded in 1999 ask me for their tracks because they want them re-mixed and re-mastered for a 20 year anniversary vinyl. I pulled all my gear out of the closet and set it up. Everything is working but I'm exporting the tracks by essentially "bouncing down" one track at a time. Is there a faster way to do this? I tried the .fxp export from the Audio window and while the text file is readable and has the correct info, I can't find a way to use it in Reaper (which is what I use nowadays). Any help would be much appreciated!I'm up and running with my API The Box compact console with an RME PCIe Madi card feeding the Orion 32 and can report this is an incredible sounding setup. Fast for production with the RME and a clean punchy API sound. I already added an Elektron Analogue Heat II into the input channel inserts for extra analogue overdrive/distortion/filter. I plan on adding a pair of LTL Chroma's with Royal Blue Neve colour cards in the Box's 500 series slots and an HG2/VT-7 combo for the master section insert.
It's a puzzle very opposite from PARIS, where PARIS needed clean gear around it for balance, The Box needs darker and dirtier gear around it.can anyone tell me, when recording or playing back paf files in paris, is there any kind of compression scheme going on, or is it strictly a linear affair of digital audio, with absolutely no compression going on at all?
I ask this because, when I use an alesis m20 to record or playback, there is no compression whatsoever used- and you can HEAR it. it sounds like open reel to reel, to MY ears, only even better! Paris comes very close to sounding like open reel, but not quite- and I'm wondering if any kind of compression scheme or algorithm might at least in part explain it--- or, like the m20, does paris record and playback TOTALLY in linear fashion?--- VERY useful information to me to know- and I'll very much appreciate anyone who can give me a correct and knowledgeable answer. thanks in advance.
harryHello everyone,
I'm having difficulty troubleshooting this problem.
I had the Paris system working before my PC broke down. After getting the program back and plugging in the MEC and my Magma chassis with the same configuration, I keep getting the message that the EDS cards are 'not connected properly.' Paris will launch after this message but as it warns in the error message, there are severe playback issues for me.
I have tried using just one EDS card and I seem to get a 1/1 error. I have tried several PCI slots in my chassis, same thing. I've tried switching the cable around between my two cards, but then I get the message that nothing is connected to the master card, when plugged into the other.
I seem to have only three of the small cables connecting the cards, which are plugged into the 1, 2 and 4 terminals, so there's nothing on the third one, am I missing a cable somehow?
Any help would be massively appreciated,
ThanksOK, so I have got past this problem (by Reading the effing manual  ) My connectors were in the wrong way. I don't remember having this problem before my computer broke down, that's why I didn't check the connections at first...
However,
After playing around in Paris for a bit, I started to get the following message upon startp:
ASSERTION FAILED NativeFxlibrary.cpp:191((LibraryHeader*)libData)->tag==kLibTag
I searched the forum for this problem and tried moving my plugins folder to another location to no avail. The only change I've made on my computer within that time is to install a Wave editor program, so I will try to uninstall that I suppose?
Any other ideas would be great, thanks again
| Nuobu wrote on Fri, 28 September 2018 11:21 |
Any help would be massively appreciated,
|
Stick testing with one card for now, use an eraser and clean the metal PCI pins as they get dirty over time and can loose connection. They will shine up quick so you'll know they are clean and remember to carefully clean the pins while holding the outside of the EDS card only, do not get any skin oil on it. Once clean re-seat the PCI card than see if that fixes your issue.A couple of months in and the API console is great sounding...... it's really too bad I could not find any 8 output cards as I bet PARIS would sound great going into it.
I kept 1 EDS card for PARIS transfers so if anyone has extra 8 out cards for sale let me know.what is the procedure for using c16 for control of Cubase 9.5 Thanks GHI don't know if this helps, but on several occasions, my Paris.cfg file has inexplicably been wiped clean. Check that the file still has all the settings intact. MAKE A BACKUP!! You can open it with any text editor.
Regards,
Kim.Heya Gary - you'll need Mike's ASIO drivers for PARIS to enable this. This will allow your PARIS hardware to function properly as an ASIO interface for any DAW (on PC only though!), and enables OSC functionality which lets your C16 control DAWs such as Reaper - transport, solo, EQ etc. I believe it also has Mackie HUI functionality.
Note that you still have to have an EDS card in your PC (obviously, otherwise there wouldn't be anything to plug your C16 into: plugging it into an Ethernet jack won't work and is definitely not recommended anyway because it can fry your puter!) but you can run the C16 as a control surface with any DAW using any audio interface, although the one's Mike's tested it with like Reaper will be the most compatible. Trying to donate the rest of my Paris gear to Mike Audet for all he's done for us. The shipping costs are a little more than what we expected to Canada from USA. I'm looking to see if anyone's interested in donating to Mike's account for shipping. The packing was around $100. Shipping is close to $250. Ridiculous I know.
Thank you Paris forum members
Ron FoleyI would like to see that happend to use AD DA with Reaper on OSX.
Anybody else wold go with that or im alone?A question for Mike Audet:
In a response on the ASIO driver thread you talked about a
Memory manager problem in w10, and you were searching for answers to several questions. Did you ever get answers (satisfactory or otherwise) from M$oft? Should I have w7x64 or w10x64 in the new pc?
Thanks for your continued support for the Paris community Been using XP for years with V2.1 . main hard drive died. I would like to stay with XP, any help would be appreciated. Specs,recs,drivers, I have lost it all. I have been working on a project for 3 years and have it backed up to external HD. Thanks in advance for any help. Man, I feel your pain. You'll probably have to start again. I recommend a new SSD drive. Mike's windows 7 drivers include a Paris v3 install. Given that ID has dumped support for PARIS, you'll have to search for a pace free version. Edmund provided such a beast, but it was withdrawn from this forum due to legal issues.
I also recommend you upgrade your PC. Motherboards with PCI slots are rare nowadays, but depending on how many EDS cards you have, they are still out there. Do yourself a favour. Dump XP. PM me if you wish to know more. Paris works well on WIN7, and apparently WIN 10 also, but I'm sticking to 7 for now.
Good Luck!! Hi lastlaf51,
I'm sorry that this response has taken so long. I've gone back to school, and it's been hectic.
The short answer is that I'm not sure.
The original post came from Vincent Burel at VB-Audio. He noted that any non-locked memory could cause long delays under Windows 10 as compared to Windows 7. The PARIS ASIO uses locked buffers anyway. This was supposed to be fixed in the spring update, but I could never get a confirmation one way or the other. I'm not seeing any problems on my system, even at 32 sample buffer sizes.
I did notice that there was something off under Windows 10 in terms of thread priorities. I recently found some undocumented Windows functions, and using them to boost the thread priority of the main buffer switch thread is working out perfectly. Windows 10 now works just like Windows 7 as far as the PARIS ASIO is concerned.
Windows 7 goes out of support in just over a year. In my view, it doesn't make sense to do a new Windows 7 build now given that you will just have to upgrade in twelve and a half months anyway if you want to be able to go online. That's just my take on things. Windows 10 is having more than it's share of issues lately, but I'm not having any problems on the Spring update.
I just made some changes to the ASIO control panel about a week ago. I'm going to test them tomorrow. My last exam was last night. If everything works, I just have to remove a bit of debugging code, and it's done. The change was so that +4/-10 expansion card settings will follow the expansion card, not the bank. So, if you have two 8 in cards, with a mix of +4 and -10 gear plugged into them, you'll be able to switch between them and the driver will load the right level settings automatically. It's not a big thing, but I though it was worthwhile. I also changed the C16 mode so that it is saved per ASIO host. So, if you save the C16 as Mackie HUI in Pro Tools 12 and also save it as Reaper OSC in Reaper, the driver will just load the right one by detecting the host.
It's really just little things at this point.
I did have to increase the output latency by 64 samples (as compared to the 4.15 ms I reported before, not compared to the old 32 bit ASIO driver), unfortunately. higher index outputs were being garbled at the lower setting.
That's all the news for now. I haven't been posting, but I've been working on the driver every chance I get.
All the best!
Mike
I've thought about it, but it would be so expensive to put together an expansion system to go from Thunderbolt to PCIe to PCI that I don't think it would get used. Plus, it would probably take about $20,000 worth of work to port it when a Windows license is, well, a lot less. And, Reaper is a native Windows application anyway. It runs beautifully under Windows.
Having said all that, it's something I've thought about.
I'm going to try to make the Windows driver better in the immediate future. The Audio Core isolation under Windows 10 looks really, really interesting.
All the best,
MikeThere's no compression in the PAF file format. It has some extra zeroes added in every 30 samples to accommodate a quirk in the transfers of 24 bit words with the DMA controller used on the EDS cards. Otherwise, it's straight PCM.I'm sorry to see you go, Will. I hope you find the 8 out card. Of course, there's no need for you to actually go. You're always welcome around here.
I'm going to check out this API desk you've got.To be honest, whilst I initially recorded in .paf (24 bit) I didn't detect any appreciable difference in final mixes using 16 bit 44Khz. That's CD quality, and let's face it,most stuff nowadays gets crunched down to mp3, and worse still, to iTunes, which provides it's own "mastering". (ouch). I find it much easier to work this way, in case I need to import/export audio.
To each their own I guess. I once did a test. I recorded something at 24 bits. I then made a copy and truncated it to 16 bits. I flipped the polarity of the 16 bit version and mixed it back into the original 24 bit file.
I knew that the audio that was left over would be the extra information captured at 24 bit but not present at 16 bit.
I played back the file and heard...absolutely nothing.
I zoomed right in, and I could see something down at -90 dB. It was hiss.
When one considers the dynamic range of the best mics barely approach 90 dB, it makes sense that the additional bits in a 24 bit file are capturing mostly hiss from the mic.
Of course, headroom is good. But, it's not like 16 bit sounds bad.
All the best,
MikeHi Mike,
Thanks for the response, and new ASIO progress report.
And we see, as always, that "Release First-Repair Later" is as tried and true as it gets...they continue to release new versions that are, by definition, flawed and under-documented. And folks with your particular skill-set will continue on where the rubber meets the road.
No reason to expect any change there, unless someone figures out
how to sneak in and hack their dna a little The bugs in the fall update are pretty unsettling. I got a notification that an update was ready, and I froze with fear. I postponed it. You couldn't pay me to use Windows 10 home and have these updates forced on me when they first come out.Merry Christmas, Everyone!Same to you, Mike. Your efforts over the years have made many people happy!
Kim.Hi all. I remember some years ago there was talk about this VST plugin, that could transfer audio from one channel to another, even across submixes?? Does anyone use it, and does it work? What's the latency??
Thanks for any insight.
Cheers, and a happy new year.
Kim.Thanks, Kim! The 64 bit ASIO is in final testing. There's more to come. Merry Christmas and thanks for keeping Paris aliveMerry Christmas all! Hope you're not too full (I know I am!)...and happy New Year!Hi Will -
I think I have an extra 8-out card or two. Are you still interested?
I'm actually looking for a C16 as well. Do you still have those?
TedHI Kim -
I have it on my system. I wanted primarily to handle stereo drum buss processing. In the end I've opted for DiMitrios' method of bussing to Auxes, which I can then send out via SPDIF for stereo processing.
Here's a thread from years ago that deals with it:
http://paris.kerrygalloway.com/index.php?t=msg&goto=1059 46&S=886e65fe737558c7d92c0e7cb5b635e2#msg_105946
TedHey everyone,
I'm about to release the 64 bit ASIO driver, and I thought it might be helpful to create a thread for experiences with PARIS on modern PCs to help anyone who is looking to upgrade.
My PC isn't exactly cutting edge at this point, but it runs PARIS very well. It's built around the Asus z97a, which can be found here: https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboards/Z97A/
The z97a is a Haswell/BroadWell motherboard, which puts it several Intel generations back.
I've been researching modern PCI motherboards, and I've come up with these. Note that I have not tried any of them.
https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboards/PRIME-B360-PLUS/
https://www.asrock.com/MB/Intel/Z370%20Pro4/
There are some Ryzen based motherboards with PCI slots, but I've read that there are DPC latency issues with them.
I'm using the old VirtuaVia chassis that Kim kindly found a source for in this thread:
http://paris.kerrygalloway.com/index.php?t=msg&goto=1084 97&S=9990b76b476a454e8243f8c3574ea13f&srch=virtua#ms g_108497
Anyone else want to share their newish setups?
Can't wait thanks for all the good work Mike!!Hi Everyone,
The 64 bit ASIO driver is now available at ensoniq.ca!
The driver allows:
- both 32 bit and 64 bit ASIO hosts on 64 bit versions of Windows.
- 32 bit hosts on 32 bit Windows
- buffer sizes as low as 32 samples
- 16 and 32 bit sample depths
- the use of all MEC expansion I/O
- the C16 as a controller via Reaper OSC, HUI (partial) and Mackie Control (partial).
- faster MEC initialization when using both ASIO hosts and PARIS.exe
- faster loading of projects and effects when using PARIS.exe
The new driver works in all versions of Windows from Windows XP through Windows 10 with some minor caveats. I don't believe that VISTA x64 will work. Windows 7 x64 needs to be patched to allow 256 bit security certificates. Windows 10 requires that secure boot be disabled.
I just updated the web store to the latest version of OS Commerce and configured it for secured connections. Let me know if there are any issues.
Thanks so much to everyone who helped to test the driver - there was lots of testing - thank you so much! And thanks to Kerry for providing us all with this forum!
Enjoy!
Mike
What does that mean Windows 7 64 needs to be patched?It just means that the a standard Microsoft supplied update need to be applied. When Windows 7 came out, the drivers were signed with 128 bit certificates. They got too easy to fake, so everything moved to 256 bits, and Windows 7 required an update to recognize them.
It just means that you can't install Windows 7 from the original CD and use the driver without letting Windows update run first.
All the best,
MikeThanks Mike!Hey, All!
There's a 64 bit ASIO driver available at ensoniq.ca.
Enjoy!
MikeYou are the man Mike.
I'll pick this up next week in support.Thanks so much, Will. But, what I really hope is that you will use it. I'd much rather keep you in the fold. I wish I'd been able to accomplish this sooner, but I did my best given family, school, and work. At least we got there.
I have more planned, too.
All the best!
MikeI still have a 1 EDS system around so it will get used from time to time, I've been downsizing PARIS but I'm thinking a PARIS Mastering setup might be in my future.Awesome! You know, with the ASIO driver, there really isn't a need for more than one card anyway. All the mixing and effects are done on the PC CPU. Unless one needs more that 24 streams at once, one card is fine.
All the best,
Mike| mikeaudet wrote on Tue, 01 May 2018 16:10 | Thanks, MY!
I should clarify - I'm not going to code a mixer app. I'm just planning to make something that takes the level and pan position that gets passed via the ASIO driver to implement direct monitoring. I want the thing to be simple to use. A second mixer is just a mess, in my view.
I'm not sure about a timeline. I have an online course starting Thursday, and I'm not sure how demanding it will be. I also haven't tested anything beyond playing back a two tracks of audio (Ian North - Beautiful City, one of the best songs ever) and opening the control panels. I have a ton of testing to do for the C16 (Midi and OSC), audio inputs, selecting channels, etc, etc. Plus, I haven't ported the ADAT card driver to 64 bits yet.
I'll have it ready as soon as I can, though. I'm excited to use it, too!
|
Totally hear ya @MikeAudet. And let me Congrats you for the release of the ASIO driver mate, what a long journey you've been through and time & effort you've put on making this possible.
HOnestly, congrats and I'm going to Donate mate and buy the drivers even I know you've sent them to me for Beta Testing and all.
Your efforts need to be supported because without you, this would never seen the DAY man.
You should be extremely proud & we are Proud of you.
Cheers
| Will The Weirdo wrote on Sun, 13 January 2019 08:16 | I still have a 1 EDS system around so it will get used from time to time, I've been downsizing PARIS but I'm thinking a PARIS Mastering setup might be in my future.
|
Hey @Will
I love the idea of having a Mastering Suite dedicated for PARIS. Thanks for the idea
Can't wait to get the new Drivers and fired up my PARIS MEC & Asio driver and use it with Studio One hahahah
And keep PARIS 3 just for MASTERING.
IDea: This is just me dreaming. How I wish we could find someone like Mike who's also designer to maybe work on PARIS DAW software just to give it a little overhaul etc... man it would be just awesome. If some people would be open to jump on board, I'd be willing to invest I swear with other investors hahahha but this is just me dreaming.
If I win the lottery, I swear, I'll make this happen haahaaha
CheersHi My,
Thanks so much for the kind words! I've tried really hard to get access to the PARIS.exe source code. I was told 'no.'
I need to clarify that I haven't used the PARIS mixer for direct monitoring in this release. I am going to explore that next. I've found that the 5.5 ms round trip at 32 samples is really not noticeable to me, but I'm going to work on the direct monitoring anyway.
I was planning to release this version last July, but I ran into a bug where multiple interfaces wouldn't initialize when using word clock after I switched to a newer compiler to do 64 bit builds. It took forever to fix, in part because I decided to re-write large sections of the PSCL rather than debug what was there. It's a lot easier to work on now.
All the best!
MikeHi Everyone,
Wondering if any has a working Paris system. Mine got stolen many years back. Ironically, one of the thiefs found god and reached out to me and returned all my back ups on CD.
Would love to have some of these backups put into a format I can use in another DAW. I would pay to have the song files converted if that is possible.
Or if there is way to converter the song file with audio into another DAW that would be great. Hoping somebody can help with this.
Thanks
JavierHello,
I was figuring out that Paris had the special sounding hardware internal dsp that gave its signature sound along with the mixing buss inside its own dsp.
So this ASIO driver which sounds by the way awesome, what can bring different from another audio card, when the PC will handle just about everything?
Thank you!
Hi ilovemusic,
I wouldn't discount the contribution of the converters and analog circuitry in defining the PARIS sound. When I play music through the ASIO driver, it sounds the same as when it is played through PARIS.exe. Which is to say, it sounds big, warm, and detailed in a way that no other sound card that I have access to sounds.
I've always found that I need another sound card, not to replace PARIS, but to check a mix on a crappy set of converters. I've found that more reverb might be needed on a crappy converter because you can't hear the space that the instruments are in as clearly.
The MEC also has a wonderful headphone amplifier.
The ASIO also allows the C16 to be used as a controller with an ASIO host.
A 4 card PARIS system with 4 loaded MECs can provide 96 inputs or outputs at a fraction of the cost of any other system if that much I/O is needed.
Plus, I don't see the choice between using PARIS.exe and the ASIO as one or the other. If I'm tracking, I like PARIS.exe. Mixing, I might prefer Reaper because of the flexible busing and because it supports newer VSTs that won't run in PARIS.exe. Reaper will spread VSTs over all available CPU cores, while PARIS.exe has thread-safety issues. Reaper allows virtual instruments/synths that require lower latency than PARIS.exe can provide. If I need to do audio to video, I can't do that in PARIS.exe at all. The ASIO opens up possibilities without needing to buy another interface.
I also like to listen to my music collection (which is all in flac) using Windows Media Player using its ASIO plugin through the PARIS hardware.
So, sure, one can buy a different sound card and control surface instead of using the ASIO driver with PARIS. But, that costs a lot more, and in my view, isn't as good.
All the best,
Mike
Heya Javier, you've definitely come to the right place. I'll let others call dibs on this because I'm sick with the flu right now, but welcome!Hello!
Thank you for the thorough explanation!
I would like if possible to add a couple of questions if you please.
Can someone use the asio driver with a 442 interface or even the small one (two ins two outs) and if so, with how many audio tracks say with Cubase ?
I remember that a dsp pci card had only 16 audio tracks cabability.
Will I be able to just use a simple 442 or the small interface and have say 32 audio tracks or even 48 with any vst (Cubase and pc wise) just by using one pci card, or would I need a MEC with more cards?
Thanks again!
I really do appreciate what you are doing!!!
Ilovemusic
Hi Ilovemusic,
The driver supports the MEC or 442. It supports the IF2 if it's connected to an MEC or 442, but not if it is connected directly to the EDS card.
The driver allows 24 streams of audio per card, but that has nothing to do with track count, just the I/O count. You can use a total of 24 inputs or outputs per card (18 at 32 samples, 24 bits, 24 for all other combinations). I suspect most people will use 2 outs and 1 or 2 inputs at a time, but it is possible to use 2 outputs and 22 inputs at once if you are recording a large band. Or, you could use 24 outputs at once if you are mixing with a console.
With ASIO, all the audio mixing is done inside the host application on the PC's CPU. So, the number of tracks/VSTs that can be used is a function of the host application and computer speed. It could be in the hundreds of tracks and VSTs on a fast enough PC with the right ASIO host application. The PARIS ASIO driver is as efficient as humanly possible. There is no additional processing of any kind done during the buffer switch. So, it will provide as many tracks as the host application and computer can provide.
I hope this help!
All the best,
Mike
That is great info!
Is there any working pci expander for one pci card that would connect to a laptop with pcmcia cardbus, the old one.
I am looking but virtuvia does not sell them I guess anymore...
Thank you for all the info!
I will certainly get your asio drivers!
Thanks again!
Thanks for the response. So far no takers. Let me know if you can help or refer me.
ThanksOh, damn, I think I just got rid of a 1-card Magma chassis with an old-style laptop card interface. I'll check to see what the person I gave it to wants to do with it. I will try and help you with this.
Send me an email with info about the files - Size and how many etc.
Are they mixdowns etc.
lance.rocks@verizon.netSomething I stumbled on years ago and forgot about.
Setting record pat to WAV rather than PAF?
Wondering if anybody does this in PARIS Why or why not?
Sure makes exporting to another DAW easierI think you can only record 24 bit when you're using .paf format? If that's not important to you WAV is a bit more friendly.Viola! You're right - they are 16 bit. I didn't notice that the software jumps to the 16 bit setting.Hi Ilovemusic.
There is a thread about expansion options using a four PCI card which can be housed in any old PC case. It is Identical to the VirtuaVia system, and is marketed by ExSys. There are host cards for use with laptops. Certainly the new mini PCI bus, not sure about PCMCIA. Exsys sell the components on Ebay as well as from the distributors in Germany.
Here is the thread:
http://paris.kerrygalloway.com/index.php?t=msg&goto=1084 97&S=9990b76b476a454e8243f8c3574ea13f&srch=virtua#ms g_108497
This may be a solution for you.
Cheers,
KimThank you!If you want to work at 24 bit but PAF seems like a pain in the neck, consider adding Reaper to your workflow.
After installing, all you need to do is download and install the free libsndfile wrapper plugin that Matthias Kronlachner and Reaper user Xenakios wrote for us, and you'll be able to work with your 24 bit PAF files directly in Reaper and also export files as 24-bit PAF so you can fly them right back into your PARIS session.
It's revolutionized workflow for those of us that want to fly multiple tracks out for editing in a more up-to-date DAW like Reaper and fly them back into PARIS. Hi Kerry, Thanks for your feedback. I have reaper but never used my PARIS files in it. I made the mistake of thinking that switching the record path to waves would include 24 bit. It was just something I had been wondering about.Perfect timing with the new drivers, as my Paris rig is getting
a new PC for its 21st birthday...it will replace the P4 XP box it got when it was five. Decided to trust your judgement on
this, and ordered the Asus motherboard you linked above.
Went with an i7-8700-3.20 ghz, 8 GB RAM, a Western Digital
500 GB SSD, and a 1TB HDD.
I see you have suggested disabling Secure Boot. Might there
be any other boxes my pc builder can leave un-checked for this
Paris-Reaper audio-only install?
I'd up the memory to 16 GB, but 8 would be fine if not using soft synths.
I'd also stay away from NVIDIA graphics cards. They have a reputation for DPC latency issues.
Keep us posted on your progress!
All the best,
Mike
OK, I'd wondered a little about the RAM, and could easily tell him to give me 16GB...and that motherboard supports 3 screens directly...don't really need a graphics card,or do I? Thanks for the quick response;)hello
been a decade since I posted...
I am trying to revive my PARIS system after maybe 5 years down, had to put in storage and when I got it out and set it up, the computer died. Not sure why, but getting started on trying, and setting up with newer computer gear as well. I have always been Linux based, except for the PARIS computer running W98. Was good enough for my simple needs. I have to go with gifted and salvaged stuff and work with what I have, have a newer Mobo from a friends upgrade, and a lot of salvaged PC parts, as I built my own system back in the beginning.. can see it in the "AK2K" videos on my You Tube Channel, and in the web journal, PARIS north of the Arctic Circle, on the road, Alaska to Florida. Actually have an old DAW page, from when DAWs were new, as well as the digital video I was doing in 2000. It is all ont the web. last things there I recorded in 2009 and 2010, "Gypsy Lulabye" and "Little Friend"on the music page http://brianthefolksinger.com/music.html or as the audio under a video from 2009 ok good enough.
But essentially, my needs are simple. I never had a problem on a computer that is probably less powerfull than my phone, though the hottest you could build at the time.
My options and plans:
Don't know why computer died, boot disk failure I seem to recall, was several years ago now, though might have been the mobo or videocard, or just corrosion. If I can get it to work , it will work, as it did before, good enough.
I have this newer mobo, and a rackmount case, and a second PARIS module I bought as a backup when I bought the first, but only ever needed one. So I can build another "desktop" and either shift the old PARIS and studio hardware there (Yamaha synth pci card used as soundcard, Pinnacle/premier digital video card as video card). Or use whatever I can scrounge up for those roles, or the onboard on the Mobo, letting PARIS do the work essentially.
I am building a new core cpu out of a hot laptop, Linux based, to try and be more portable than lugging the rackmount gorilla case all over. Or at least if I do, being able to use the laptop as well in a easier setup and still get work done, even just mixing.
I have some newer windows, had on othe rmachines.. had XP on one, and made a PEbuilder disk I think of it, dont think I had the disk, came with the computer bought used. Have a liscenced disk for W7 64bit came with the new laptop, but I'm running Linux. Have W98 disk!
As BTW, have a M-16DX someone gave me when they upgraded.
I've scanned the posts last couple days and good to hear PARIS is still respected, I always thought it was great, and definitely more than good enough, so I never listened when people told me I should "upgrade"
So! Questions:
1. Has anyone used PARIS somehow under Linux? The one mention I saw looked like it didn't work in a KVM or WINE, though I have just one card and simple needs, seems it might be a stretch, so have to go dualboot, as I have always done till recently, pretty easy, but means I can't run PARIS side by side with the main Linux apps, even possibly Jack it in somehow. But was always good enough that way, could potentially route the signal through both machines as well.
2. Don't know what this new mobo is, though it is fairly new, might find some identifying mark or bar code on it, so, any way to figure out if it will work without just trying?
3. And differences or pro/cons to using XP or Win7? Might have to use both, W7 on one machine and XP on another, but maybe not.
4. I am looking at an external PCI connector for the laptop that goes into the 54pin smartcard slot, any opinions if that would work to put PARIS in an external box and use it with the Laptop? Not sure how fast that connection will be. Anyone ever tried that? Or some other way of using PARIS with a laptop? It would mean not lugging around a desktop at least. Even if I am just mixing.
5. I saw the link to AudioMove. Would probably run under Wine or KVM, so I don't have to reboot just to get a paf file, of do them all. If I can't get the old studio running, and even if I do, still will need to move my .paf archive to linux compatable files, or will one of the Linux DAWs or audio programs or utilities read them or import them directly? I remember using zaps fixer. But again windows app. But I used to go that route, convert to wav in PARIS then move to the Linuxbox.
6. I saw the mention and looked at Reaper, and it is cool they have a discount price for people like me.. I'm a street musician primarily, and don't make 10K a year, and just record myself. Not sure why I need it if I can make PARIS run, but if I have to run Windows anyway, it might be useful with other aspects? Compared to my Linux DAW? So, seems what was said (already vague) was that is will import or read my old .paf files, does that include importing projects or just the audio files? Is that even possible in any case, to convert project files? I also have a copy of Cakewalk came with the M-16DX.
7. Any other ways people are integrating or using PARIS with linux in their studio, how and why? My system will probably always be linux based, and lerning curves can be difficult, one reason I want to stay with PARIS, and because it works so well.
8. This should probably be a different thread, but curious about modern ways to synch and integrate the digital videocam, especially if I get a newer one, with PARIS, or if they use a different DAw and why, and what/however they use for it instead.. I used to record with both separately, then swap the PARIS audio into the video after mixing it, or work and mix the camera audio in PARIS then return it to the video. Again, it was all new when I started, and integration was not in the picture. But what do people do now practically, as I expect many studios include video tracks as a part of the recording process.
good enough! I am so glad you are still around. I don't have much time, and no money, but I am going to try and start recording again. I really want to do it in PARIS, somehow. Though I can try to get the M-16DX to work as well, and maybe it would work to integrate with hybrid studio, if I need Win for PARIS and have another Win DAW in my studio.
peace
Brian the FolksingerHey everyone,
After years of music making I have a confession...... PARIS ruined me in a great way, lol.
FWIW my thoughts here are all based on the mostly electronic generated music I specialized in.
No matter what I did in PARIS it always sounded right. My one knock on the PARIS sound was that it would round off the kick drums a bit and if you didn't watch out it could become muddy down low with 808 bass heavy music. We never had a transient efx in PARIS for knocking kick drums and a proper sidechain efx. Many today also want the punchy clean lifeless modern sound, but I want both fat and clean for different tasks.
Over time I had to learn PTHD as I advanced my career in LA and Atlanta. I hated treacking in PTHD where I had to stop after every take, lol..... I missed tracking in PARIS where I've actually gone 2 hours never stopping the song while tracking vocals, damn PARIS was so fast. I still have issues with Creative Labs for abandoning PARIS, lol.
I had to learn to accept the bright modern sound with punch, but I also had to learn to work 2-3 times harder to get a mix to gel. As time went on I had to also accept I would never get that PARIS fat sound out of my modern DAW without hardware help. I've slowly gone hybrid over the last 5 years to get back part of what I was missing.
Last year I finally decided to move on from PARIS as I can only work today in x64 DAW's and love creating in Studio One as it's the first software that stays out of my way and creative flow. With the help of Nebula I learned to mix in S1 too, but every time I add hardware to my mixing process there were always improvements. I fight with the top end these days and every time I listen to my many PARIS mixes I'm always reminded of how the top end should be smooth and easy to dial in.
So I ended up in a situation where with PARIS my front end was vital and my workflow was slow for tracking but my mixed gelled together musically, and with S1 my mixing hardware is so vital, it is faster but more costly. I've dreamed on having S1 as my DAW, PARIS converters teamed with modern converters, PARIS EDS Efx during mixing into my API Box mixer.
Recently Mike finished up the x64 ASIO drivers, so I plan on using my two MEC's and tracking down some 8 out cards to throw a little PARIS sound into my mix workflow............
I'll let you know all how it goes, lol.
PS: Thanks Mike, because of you I might actually be able to find the sweet spot between PARIS, S1 with Orion 32, and API mixer. I really hope it works as I have a lot of songs to finish up.
I have Band in a Box and I render the files to wave but when I try to add them into Paris i get this ERROR CODE
393222/60006 Help would be appreciated Thanks ALWhen importing any wav files into PARIS I always use Stripwav as it removes the wav header information that PARIS can't read.where can i get my hands on Stripwav?Here it is. You have to run the installer as administrator.Hi Everyone,
It's been a long time since I've posted but have been actively using Paris since 1999.
I have just built a new rig with Win 10, i9, 64GB RAM etc.. Paris is up and running thanks to Mike!
I am trying to configure my plugins like my XP machine but am doing it incorrectly. I use both FxPansion and FFX-4 to allow Paris to boot only showing Faderworks and FFX-4. FFX-4 should show all the plugins in it's own list. For some reason all I get are what I think are DX plugs. Older Waves, old Antares AutoTune and a few others. In XP it's set up perfectly and all the plugs I own show up inside FFX-4's list including UAD-2 among others. The .dlls are all in the Steinberg x86 plugins folder. I'm sure they're 32 bit because Paris sees them if I direct it to them. It is much more convenient aand snappy to do it using FFX-4.
If Dimitrios, Rod or any others can chime in that would be great!
Thanks for all your help and rock on with Paris.
Tom
Problem solved. Run FXpansion as administrator. That routine has been important across the board in Win 10. Mike's ASIO drivers work great in Cubase 10 as well if Cubase is run as administrator.
Ready for Magma installation now.
Tom
Thanks Tom.
Good to know when I migrate to Win10. Still using 7, and I use ffx4 a lot.
Cheers,
KimA short snippet of a recent session with an awesome local band called "Doctor DeSoto" in Adelaide, Sth Australia . I still love PARIS! https://www.facebook.com/doctordesoto/videos/212477059701562 /
Cool to hear some new music, even cooler to hear it recorded with PARIS!Hey fellow Parisians,
I've got a few mobile recording requests and was thinking that a small system with two EDS cards would get me 32 mobile channels of recording and fulfill the needs of the requests for mobile recording I've had without needing to disturb the system in the studio. Looks like there are some Intel H87 chipset motherboards that have multiple PCI slots that could be used for this. LGA 1150 socket. Anyone have any experience or thoughts with a modern motherboard and not using a PCI Express adapter chassis?
Also, I've seen mention of checking the PCI slot wattage. Have not found a source to look that up on. The owner's manual for one H87 I looked at did not seem to say anything about PCI slots and power.
Appreciate any thoughts or sharing of any combinations that did or did not work.
Awesome!!!The PCI spec requires that 25 watts be available per slot. The really cheap PCI adapters don't live up to this, but I'd be surprised if a motherboard didn't.
I hope this helps.
MikeHere are some snippits the boys from "Solide Saker" strung together...they've been rehearsing and recording at my place, putting together an 18-song concert set. Paris into its 21st year of rockin' here in Norway... https://www.facebook.com/2020141571447551/posts/204757497870 4210?s=727995972&v=e&sfns=moMike,
Thanks for the feedback. That makes sense that the concern was only about PCI expansion chassis.
-Matt-
Nice!Hi Everyone,
In case you haven't been reading the recording news and use Pro Tools, Avid is doubling the price of yearly updates on perpetual licenses for Pro Tools starting on July 1st. You can buy the update early at the old price until then.
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/avid-pro-tools/1269275-new-p ro-tools-pricing-july-1-2019-a.html
Sometime last year, they added the ability to use aux sends during low latency monitoring, which is useful.
It looks like they are phasing out perpetual licenses, which, in my view, is a tacit acknowledgment that the software is probably not going to receive updates that would justify paying to upgrade to a new version.
It also looks like they are looking to get rid of the reinstatement option, meaning that if you don't pay the $200 USD a year, you will never get updates for your perpetual license again. They haven't gotten rid of it yet, but they say it is being reviewed, which suggests to me that it will soon be gone.
I've bought one more year at the old price, after which I'm getting off the ride. The software is basically feature complete, and Reaper is wonderful anyway. This means that future planned updates to the PARIS ASIO driver will not be tested by me on versions of Pro Tools that come out after June 2020, for whatever that's worth.
All the best,
Mike
Hi Everyone,
I may be late to the party with this, but I've just discovered JBridge. It wraps plugins so that they run in a separate process, allowing 64 bit VST plugins to run in 32 bit hosts. It also allows running 32 bit plugins in 32 bit hosts, but runs them in the other process.
I've been able to run the 64 bit versions of the Lexicon PCM bundle in PARIS with this, and it also allows the old UAD-1 plugins to run in PARIS with no additional wrapper needed.
Anybody else used this?
https://jstuff.wordpress.com/jbridge/
All the best,
Mike
64 bit plugin use looks good. I'll try this out.
Thanks Mike
Happy Canada Day!
Happy Canada day, Ted!I'm going to try it too.
I'm in the process of setting up a four EDS external box, using the the EXSYS EX-1035 4 PCI slot expansion backplane, and EX-1095 PCI-e host card. (Future-proofing, as I want to upgrade my studio PC, and PCI slots are all but gone). I have four EDS cards. Hoping the EXSYS will work with all four.
15 Euros is not a lot of money for the JBridge, which could become invaluable with my new build.
Thanks for the heads up, Mike!
Cheers,
Kim
Hi, I was part of this group in the late 90s, used the Daw regularly until 2010 or so. Am I nuts to try to resurrect this system for non-midi multi track recording? I found the interface intuitive, and enjoyed editing with it. Thanks for any thoughts, with kind regards, BenHey, Ben,
I'm listening to some Tom Petty through my PARIS system right now (via Windows Media Player), and it just sounds so good. The detail, the size of the sound-field, the richness of the bass - it's incredible. Of course you you should resurrect your system for non-midi recording!
As for the size of the community, we're definitely a select group at this point. There's lots to be said about new hardware being smaller, more portable, and more convenient. It's also a lot of money for the good stuff, and history keeps repeating itself; I have no appetite for spending thousands on new hardware to just have it discontinued again anyway.
I also love that I can open a session I recorded in PARIS.exe 20 years ago, and it just works. Will Pro Tools be able to do that in 20 years? Will one have to rent it? How much will that cost? Will an iLok still work? Will Avid help with that? I don't like the odds. Stability has its pluses.
With ASIO driver, you can use Pro Tools or any other DAW if you want to as well.
One of the benefits of using a mature system like PARIS is that we all know how to use it. The news comes slowly and the questions are few. So, it may take some time to get a roll call.
Welcome back to the fold, if you decide to set your system back up. I'm super proud of the driver work I've done keeping PARIS viable on Windows 10 and new PCs. I'll be back working on more in September once the kids are back in school.
All the best,
Mike
Hi Ben,
Yep, been a Parisite since 1998 and still using.
I've got PT12 for sequencing and song builds which I then convert wave files to paf after stripping and render a mix. There is a noticeable warmth when doing this.
When recording full bands (16 tracks) I go directly to PARIS. Two reasons: 1. insanely low latency and 2. ease of use with the C16 using stock efx's. Most bands just use studio monitors for vocals because were filming at the same time but I've got 2 8ins and 1 8out in the MEC. The 8out is a great send out to my 6 channel headphone amp if were aiming for studio isolation. I use Mike's reverbs during mixdown.
Here is my website and YouTube channel. Almost all the band video audios were recorded in PARIS.
http://www.audio-audition.com
https://www.youtube.com/user/WC1U2ube
WayneI wanted to thank and apologize to you, Mike and Wayne, for my tardiness in responding to your kind and welcoming responses.
My attention has been diverted by our daughter's impending marriage at our yet unfinished home.
I have tried to resurrect my win98 based 3 card system, but it is no longer easily possible to test finctionality of the eds cards, which I hope are still functional before purchasing an expansion chasis to use with a new windows based system...if I may ask for your help, and chasis or motherboard suggestions?
Thanks again to you both!
Ben
Heya Ben! The cards don't degrade in storage and about the only thing that's likely to have happened is oxidation on the contacts, so just get a can of contact cleaner from your local electronics store and give them a spritz before plugging them in and they should work as well as they did back in the day.
Congratulations on the family's happy event, and welcome!I cannot tell you how grateful I am that my career allowed me to bypass the whole ProTools thing (the people I work with come to work with me, and I'm grateful I have the luxury of being able to tell them what system I'm going to use to get the job done).Thank you, relieved to hear! All best back at you! BenYeah I'm relieved to hear that about the cards because I'm about to start using Paris for the first time! Renovations have really dragged out and my cards have sat in boxes for more than a year and a half.
Hope your system is coming together.
Cheers RaphDisappeared there for a while, sorry and it's good to be back doing something I want to do!
I'm looking to set up dual monitors for Paris and was wondering what people were using.
I suddenly thought do I need to get 5:4 screens (closest thing to 4:3 these days)?
Or what about one of those really wide monitors that are all the rage now. Most of them have two video inputs so they can operate as two separate screens. You can still use the windows monitor settings and get a desktop on one side and then move whatever you want on the other side. Does anyone use one of these?
It would be good if you could let me know the resolution or size of the screens that you use. I will probably get a video card to give me two HDMI or display port connections rather than the crappy dsub RGB connection. My mobo has dsub plus HDMI or display port but not HDMI and display port at the same time.Hey - yeah Paris is still viable. I'm using it again after trying other setups 3 different times.
The converters are remarkably good. I wouldn't say they're as detailed and "pristine" as my Metric Halo ULN-8's but together with the analog circuits the MEC and I/O cards have a ton of vibe.
I generally try to edit in Studio 1 or Harrison Mixbus, mainly for drum alignment (deeper resolution for lining up waveforms) and region gain editing (I do a lot of that), and while Paris' Gain change function in the Editor window was ground breaking at the time, it can't compete with the simplicity of dragging on a handle to change gain on a section of the waveform.
BUT - the headroom and width, plus the softer transient treatment (totally subjective) makes it remarkable. Even today.
Hope things go well
TedSo nice to hear, Thanks Ted!Thanks Ralph, seems like builds that take a bit are more easy to troubleshoot cause there's less of it...hope it goes well!Thanks for the kind words gents, I'm looking forward to getting the system up and running.
Ted your comments about the sound quality make me pretty excited to hear it!If you need an expansion chassis, Kim W. found the OEM of the Virtua Via chassis in this thread:
http://paris.kerrygalloway.com/index.php?t=msg&goto=1084 97&S=9990b76b476a454e8243f8c3574ea13f&srch=virtua#ms g_108497
Just scroll down until you see all his links.
All the best,
MikeOn the subject of the PARIS sound, someone who worked at Ensoniq told me that the man who designed the PARIS analog circuitry was like a mad scientist of audio. He would buy every keyboard/sound module that came out, listen to it, and then take it apart to find out exactly why is sounded the way it did. He then took everything he learned and designed the Ensoniq hardware, including PARIS. Much thanks Mike! Do pcie to full width pci risers have any value?Ah,I thought it was only Stephen and Edmund who developed PARIS, thanks!One PARIS user tried the cheap riser cards and had to abandon the plan. If I remember right, one card worked, but not two, even when an expansion chassis was attached to the riser. I wouldn't trust it.
But on the other hand, they are so cheap that you could try it to see if you have better luck. Just make sure it has a PCIe connector attached. The EDS cards draw around 20 watts each.
Once again Mike, thanks for sharing your experience and expertise!| mikeaudet wrote on Tue, 03 September 2019 15:28 | On the subject of the PARIS sound, someone who worked at Ensoniq told me that the man who designed the PARIS analog circuitry was like a mad scientist of audio. He would buy every keyboard/sound module that came out, listen to it, and then take it apart to find out exactly why is sounded the way it did. He then took everything he learned and designed the Ensoniq hardware, including PARIS.
|
Brilliant! Love that people do stuff like that, and I hope that there are still some places where this sort of thing goes on. You're almost in that category yourself Mike!
And yes, the external chassis is the future for Paris, EDS cards and MECS.There's definitely no need to get an old school 4:3 screen these days. I'm using a 24 inch 1920 x 1080, and if anything, wide screen monitors have finally caught up to the PARIS UI. I could never get 16 channels on the screen at once in the old days. Now, I can.
I hope this helps!
MikeThanks Mike, that does help quite a lot - getting 16 channels on one screen seems like a good thing!
Cheers Raph| mikeaudet wrote on Thu, 21 February 2019 17:48 | I'd also stay away from NVIDIA graphics cards. They have a reputation for DPC latency issues.
|
What's the other brand - is it Radeon?
Are you using a graphics card in your system?
AMD are supposed to have very good DPC latency figures.
I'm using the built in Intel graphics.
All the best,
Mike My new machine is built around the Asus board linked above, and I'm
running an old Phillips 32-inch TV off of the HDMI as my main
screen, plus a pair of 24-wide monitors, all straight from the
motherboard with no video card. Perfect!| lastlaf51 wrote on Fri, 06 September 2019 05:28 | My new machine is built around the Asus board linked above, and I'm
running an old Phillips 32-inch TV off of the HDMI as my main
screen, plus a pair of 24-wide monitors, all straight from the
motherboard with no video card. Perfect!
|
So you're running the TV off the RGB Dsub output and the two 24's off the HDMI and DVI outputs?
I can only run RGB Dsub plus HDMI/DVI. How is the quality of the screen running off your RGB output?I've got the TV running off of the HDMI out from the Asus motherboard, with the DVI and RGB outs going to a pair of
24-wide monitors. The 24s don't look exactly the same
but no big deal...plenty good enough for Paris and Reaper.Using 4 24" HP monitors here. (One for each of the four EDS's). Pure Bliss! No scrolling. Cost me 30 bucks each from a Government auction house. I have two dual output Nvidia PCI-x cards running them. Interesting that Mike says they have issues. I also have an ATI Quadfire card. Perhaps I should try that?? (Mike??).
Since my new build, with two SSD drives, (one boot, one audio), an annoying issue has come to light. The first time I boot, the Paris exe will NOT load. (Sometimes during hardware initialization, and sometimes during initialization of DirectX/EDS effects. I have to terminate the app, and start again. Second attempt loads every time. It's almost as if Windows loads too quickly and needs time to settle before Paris will load on first attempt. Anyone else experienced this?? (I may have to start a new thread, as this is outside the initial "Monitors for Paris" thread.
Cheers,
Kim W. Still using it, and still loving it!
Mike and others have helped keep it alive. Sonically, it's THE BOMB. Midi? forget it. I have a separate comp running Cubase via ADAT sync and an RME multiface. Works for me when I need MIDI Vsti's.
Kim W.
BTW, You'll need Mikes driver package available at ensoniq.ca. Whilst you are there, treat yourself to some of his plugins. The reverbs in particular are STELLAR! Some of the old freebies by Chuck Duffy are also very good. Have fun!Hi Kim,
The Nvidia cards are known to case small freezes because of large DPC latency. PARIS uses a 3000 sample buffer sizes, so it doesn't care. With an ASIO host set to 32 samples, the small delays are a problem.
What version of the driver are you using? That's a strange one.
All the best,
MikeThank you!!Cheers Kim, and I may be able to add to the SSD issue when my system is running (finally) because I went with SSD drives as well. Sounds like you have a great monitor setup!
I think I'll start off with a couple of monitors running off the built in GPU via the RGB and HDMI\DVI outs. I was thinking that using a dedicated GPU would ta
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