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| Re: Our Government has gone nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!! [message #54844 is a reply to message #54832] |
Thu, 23 June 2005 12:46   |
![Gene Lennon[1] is currently offline](/theme/PARIS_Forum_Template/images/offline.png "Gene Lennon[1] is currently offline")
Gene Lennon[1]
Messages: 10
Registered: June 2005
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Junior Member |
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xXuLeHzT++qP7PD/wA9qbP/AKw1HXp8kex0
KcbfCj//2Q==
---=_linux42d6d181--or, in short: "i know europe - cause i know some europeans
that live here in the US".
that pretty much stands nicely by itself.
"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
>Well........you may assume that my impressions of Europe are wrong, but
>these impressions were of Europeans who were *from Europe*its obvious that i dont reach your conscious mind.
your argueing against things i havent even said. youre argueing
against what you believe is my picture of the US, even though
i explicitly stated the *exact opposite* (that i find both
the selfish socialist europe and the evil america clichee
ridiculous, its down there in my post, maybe you should
actually go forward and try to READ it).
youre in full auto-argueing-mode, serving some standard
"antiliberal" phrases that dont have anything to do with what
i said, on the contrary, its the discussion i again explicitly
mentioned as a useless discussion that leads nowhere and
will always be based on speculation on all sides.
i am NOT
the standard discussion target that wants to debate whether
george bush is evil or whatever - its again all down there in
the post. im not interested in that. i didnt even write
a single word about that in my initial post, you brought
the assumption up that i might be "one of those" (TM)
who thinks that george bush and with him the entire USA
is eeeeeeeevil. im not.
i made my point about what i think
about your euro stereotype BS and how justified it is or not
(thats some "non-non-judgmentalism" right there for you).
i noted to you that there is a difference between i.e. a handful
of italians living in the US and the country italia with
its citicens, that one cant judge one by the other.
you can acknowledge that or not, your choice.
if you want an iraq-related discussion (again something
you brought up), i inform you that the only discussion
i am interested in is the basic discus
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| Re: Our Government has gone nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!! [message #54846 is a reply to message #54840] |
Thu, 23 June 2005 14:15 |
cujo
Messages: 285
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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at this is a possible scenario.....maybe not Berlin, but somewhere in
the
>neighborhood..........and kissing the asses of this *non--stereotypical
>humaniod being with no cultural bias whatsoever which is not driving his
>non-ideology* will not do much to discourage him fromnuclear blackmail once
>he has the capability.
>
>This is a very big difference that I'm seeing between us.
>
>Best,
>
>Doug
>
>"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote in message
>news:42d6cb58@linux...
>> Well........you may assume that my impressions of Europe are wrong, but
>> these impressions were of Europeans who were *from Europe* who were
>> professionals, hippies, soldiers, tradesmen and were there for long
>periods
>> of time, returning to this place again and again, year after year for
>almost
>> 20 years and I saw the same thing happen, again and again, year after
year
>> for almost 20 years, so I'm sure there is no reason to assume there's
any
>> relationship between what I experienced and what is reality.
>>
>>
>> "derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> wrote in message news:42d6c7de$1@linux...
>> >
>> > doug, the "let me explain america to you" part was, of course, pure
>> irony.
>> > but im somehow glad that
>> > you missed it, because it should give you a nice impression
>> > about how your ranting about
>> > the europe you believe to know so much about comes
>> > acro
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| Re: Our Government has gone nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!! [message #54850 is a reply to message #54844] |
Thu, 23 June 2005 17:37 |
Deej [3]
Messages: 181
Registered: June 2005
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Senior Member |
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oples favourite enemy de la saison. ooooh non-judgmentalism!!!
>bad
>> > >bad
>> > >> bad!!! its the antichrist! booooh!
>> > >> *throws tomato*
>> > >>
>> > >> i gotta tell you, reading about how "well founded" your
>> > >> ideas of europe were (reminds me of last time where you
>> > >> marked "stefan schroeder" or some such as member of the
>> > >> "evil" (TM) club, while not even knowing his actual name), i
>> > >> think a little dose of humility and non-judgmentalism wouldnt be
all
>> that
>> > >> bad.
>> > >>
>> > >> i wont go into the iraq thing any more than say that there is more
to
>> > the
>> > >> whole story than
>> > >> "violating UN sanctions" (which other countries like israel
>> > >> or the US do just as much, not that it matters anymore).
>> > >> fuck that dumb dicussion about peoples motivations -
>> > >> usually a country operates driven by a mixture of greed,
>> > >> egoism, a little dose of humanism and morality (preferably when it
>> > >> happens to be in sync with other interests) and power.
>> > >> every country, every institution is like that, its
>> > >> only the mixture that varies a bit - discussions about
>> > >> that lead nowhere (at best they lead to kindergarden stereotypes
>> > >> such as the impressively well researched ones you had to offer -
>> > >> greedy selifish europe or, equally stupid, the oh so evil USA, all
>that
>> > BS
>> > >> thats only
>> > >> there because some people like to have everything in easy categories)
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> its only different this time because mr.bush felt like
>> > >> trying a new concept, throwing away the idea of "be like
>> > >> you want your neighbour to be" and a set or rules and coming
>> > >> up with the - rather explosive - idea of preemptive strikes.
>> > >>
>> > >> in the end, we all want the same thing. so coming up with
>> > >> this new concept is fair enough. but it naturally leads to
>> > >> the basic argument about deescalation versus brute force.
>> > >> the whole "ah theyre just selfish cowards" blabla is
>> > >> just a nice excuse so that one doesnt have to face this
>> > >> discussion, cause as we all well know, those countries
>> > >> that supposedly are so selfish as to not join the saint
>>
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| Re: Our Government has gone nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!! [message #54854 is a reply to message #54832] |
Fri, 24 June 2005 02:47 |
Kim
Messages: 1246
Registered: October 2005
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Senior Member |
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vians were a bit aloof from the rest of the Europeans and
>> > >Americans.
>> > >> >The Texans weren't really considered to be Americans by the
>Europeans
>> > or
>> > >> the
>> > >> >Mexicans and got along better with the Mexicans than with anyone
>else
>> > >there.
>> > >> >There were lots of other things like this that they were noticing.
>The
>> > >> >really telling thing about it all was that every nationality
>> eventually
>> > >> >ended up at their own posada (sort of like an outdoor hotel on the
>> > >beach).
>> > >> >There was the German, French, Spanish, Swiss, American......etc.
>> posada.
>> > >> >Just like all of these people who were willing to pay lip service
to
>> > the
>> > >> >idea of one big happy worle, were totally unable to practice this
>and
>> > >their
>> > >> >preconceptions and stereotypes where easy to recognize by a group
of
>> > >people
>> > >> >who were totally unfamiliar with world history and
>> politics............so
>> > >> >they saw the stereotypic BS that you ascribe to me. Once I heard
>this,
>> > I
>> > >> >started paying attention to it and there is a lot more ugly stuff
I
>> could
>> > >> >say about it, but it would do no good and despite your anger at
me,
>I
>> > am
>> > >> >basing my opinions on real experience, not theories of how things
>> ought
>> > >> to
>> > >> >be.
>> > >> >
>> > >> >During the 70's and 80's this was a good jumping off place for
>> travelling
>> > >> >further down into central and south america. It was pretty awful
>down
>> > >there
>> > >> >because there was a lot of killing going on, boith over politics
and
>> > >drugs
>> > >> >(which were pretty much the same). The Ho
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| Re: Our Government has gone nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!! [message #54858 is a reply to message #54854] |
Fri, 24 June 2005 06:12 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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r />
ugly
>> > to
>> > >> me
>> > >> >> too. When I look at what is happening I see stereotypes, though
>they
>> > >are
>> > >> >not
>> > >> >> racial, they are cultural, they are constantly evolving and they
>are
>> > >very
>> > >> >> real. From around 1965 through 1995 I spent a good part of my
life
>> > as
>> > >> part
>> > >> >> of one of these evolving stereotypes.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> I am old compared to most of the folks here, I think. I was born
>in
>> > >1950.
>> > >> >> The town where I was born was a small town in the southern US
>which
>> > was
>> > >> >full
>> > >> >> of hypocracy and racial predjudice. I remember some very ugly
>things
>> > >very
>> > >> >> vividly. Without going into a lot of detail about this, the effect
>> > of
>> > >> this
>> > >> >> made me really angry and very willing to believe that there was
>> > >something
>> > >> >> wrong with what my parents generation was saying, but not doing.
I
>> > also
>> > >> >came
>> > >> >> to distrust organized religion at a very early age because of
>these
>> > >> >> experiences and the hypocracy I saw.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> My grandmother had a big hammond organ in her parlor and also
a
>baby
>> > >grand
>> > >> >> piano. From the time I was about 5 years old, I would climb up
on
>> the
>> > >> >> benches and play the keys. I was told I had a *good ear* because
I
>> > >could
>> > >> >> listen to the radio songs and figure out how to play them on the
>> keys
>> > >> >> (though I couldn't reach the pedals ;o). During the 50's, I lived
>in
>> > >south
>> > >> >> Texas (part of the time in Erling's favorite place, Corpus
>Christi,
>> > >Texas)
>> > >> >> and travelled across the border into Mexico often with my father.
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| Re: Our Government has gone nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!! [message #54863 is a reply to message #54858] |
Fri, 24 June 2005 07:37 |
Deej [3]
Messages: 181
Registered: June 2005
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Senior Member |
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ven despite stuff like this, no one in the Hollywood
>> > >> >> *counterculture* was willing to believe that some aspects of their
>> > >> >lifestyle
>> > >> >> might not be so great. Non-judgmentalism was sooooooo *uncool*.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> I continued to participate as as activist in all of the *causes
du
>> > >jour*
>> > >> I
>> > >> >> supported gay rights and the *women's movement* (I loved the
>moving
>> > >women)
>> > >> >> and celebrated when birth control pills became available and
>> abortions
>> > >> >> became legal. I was active in the democratic party, watched as
the
>> > >various
>> > >> >> power brokers emerged in that party to *take care of* the Afro
>> American
>> > >> >> citizens
>> > >> >> and Mexican American farm workers. I had been gassed in anti-war
>> > >protests
>> > >> >> and had my feet firmly planted in the *hate America* movement.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Anyway, by 1973 I had graduated from my college studies with a
>major
>> > >> >degree
>> > >> >> in political science with minor studies in psychology and
>economics.
>> > >This
>> > >> >> liberal arts education didn't really qualify me for any kind of
>> career
>> > >> >path
>> > >> >> but I was young, invincible, resourceful and I figured if I knew
>my
>> > >way
>> > >> >> around these things, I could pretty much make my way in the world.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> The first thing I did was to take some time and go back down to
>> Mexico.
>> > >> I
>> > >> >> didn't want to be part of America anymore and I had seen a place
>> during
>> > >> my
>> > >> >> travels down there where I thought I might be happy. It was a
>> deserted
>> > >> >place
>> > >> >> with a *feeling* about it. I can't describe it, but others who
I
>> have
>> > >> met
>> > >> >> there who are more travelled than I am tell me they feel the same
>> kind
>> > >> of
>> > >> >> *energy* there that they have felt in places like Jerusalem,
>> Katmandhu,
>> > >> >> Mecca and other locations which are considered to be religious
>> > >> >destinations.
>> > >> >> In 1973, it was just a deserted beach with a little store owned
by
>> > a
>> > >> >Zapotec
>> > >> >> Indian named Ramon Aguilar Villalobos and this exended family,
two
>> > o
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| Re: Our Government has gone nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!! [message #54933 is a reply to message #54832] |
Sun, 26 June 2005 10:58 |
Stefan
Messages: 15
Registered: July 2007
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Junior Member |
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RLaYKrNKs1QLHBCfqmZmYBVbmykkDLYwOR
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