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| Re: IRQs, again [message #76127 is a reply to message #76112] |
Fri, 17 November 2006 23:44   |
JeffH
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2007
Location: Wamic, OR
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Senior Member |
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t;>float natively (not new really, but
>>>>better than sticking to 24-bit) and 56 or so bits in hardware instead
>of
>>>
>>>>going to Motorola DSPs at 24.
>>>>The onboard effects were also a step up from anything out there, so the
>>> demo
>>>>did sound good.
>>>>I don't recall which, but one of the demos, imho, wasn't so good (some
>>>>sloppy production and
>>>>vocals in spots, IIRC), so I only listened to it once. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>Coupled with the gain drop and buss makeup, this all gave it a "headroom"
>>> no
>>>>one else had. With very nice
>>>>onboard effects, Paris jumped ahead of anything else out there easily,
>and
>>>
>>>>still respectably holds its' own today
>>>>in that department.
>>>>
>>>>Most demos I hear (when I listen to them) vary in quality, usually not
>so
>>>
>>>>great in some area. But if a demo does
>>>>sound great, then it at least says that the product is capable of at
>
>>>>least
>>>
>>>>that level of performance, and it can
>>>>only help improve a prospective buyer's impression of it.
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>Dedric
>>>>
>>>>"LaMont " <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:458c14c0$1@linux...
>>>>>
>
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| Re: IRQs, again [message #76137 is a reply to message #76127] |
Sat, 18 November 2006 09:42 |
uptown jimmy
Messages: 441
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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n into account, they
>>> work
>>>>>
>>>>>>exactly the same way).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So at least when talking about apps with 32-bit float all the way
>>>>>>through,
>>>>>
>>>>>>it's safe to say (since it has been proven) that summing isn't different
>>>>>
>>>>>>unless
>>>>>>there is an error somewhere, or variation in how the user duplicates
>the
>>>>>
>>>>>>same mix in two different apps.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Imho, that's actually a very good thing - approaching a more consistent
>>>>>
>>>>>>basis for recording and mixing from which users can make all
>>>>>>of the decisions as to how the final product will sound and not be
>>>>>>required
>>>>>
>>>>>>to decide when purchasing a pricey console, and have to
>>>>>>focus their business on clients who want "that sound". I believe we
>are
>>>>>
>>>>>>actually closer to the pure definition of recording now than
>>>>>>we once were.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>>Dedric
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I the answer is yes, then,the real task is to discover or rather
>>>>>>> un-cover
>>>>>>> what's say: Motu's vision of summing, versus Digidesign, versus
>>>>>>> Steinberg
>>>>>>> and so on..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What's under the hood. To me and others,when Digi re-coded their
>>>>>>> summing
>>>>>>> engine, it was obvious that Pro Tools has an obvious top end (8k-10k)
>>>>>
>>>>>>> bump.
>>>>>>> Where as Steinberg's summing is very neutral.
>&g
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| Re: IRQs, again [message #76148 is a reply to message #76137] |
Sat, 18 November 2006 19:35 |
JeffH
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2007
Location: Wamic, OR
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Senior Member |
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r />
>>that it is very difficult to dither in a Floating Point environment.
>>Fact remains that the error shouldn't be bigger than 2 to 3 LSB's.
>>
>>Is this a problem?
>>In real world applictations: NO.
>>In scientific -unrealistic- tests (forcing the erro ): YES.
>>
>>The alternative is having a Fixed point mixer, where you already would
be
>>in trouble as soon as you boost one channel over 0dBfs. (or merge two files
>>that are @ 0dB)
>>Also, this problem will be pretty much gone as soon as we switch to the
>64
>>bit engine.
>>
>>
>>For the record, the test where Jake hears "music" as residue must be flawed.
>>You should hear noise/distortion from square waves.
>>
>>HTH
>>
>>Fredo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"Dedric Terry" <dedric@echomg.com> wrote:
>>>I can't tell you why you hear ProTools differently than Nuendo using a
>
>>>single file.
>>>There isn't any voodoo in the software, or hidden character enhancing
dsp.
>>
>>>I'll see if
>>>I can round up an M-Powered system to compare with next month.
>>>
>>>For reference, everytime I open Sequoia I think I might hear a broader,
>>
>>>clean,
>>>and almost flat (spectrum, not depth) sound, but I don't - it's the same
>>as
>>>Nuendo, fwiw.
>>>Also I don't think what I was referring to was a theory from Chuck -
I
>>
>>>believe that was what he
>>>discovered in the code.
>>>
>>>Digital mixers all have different preamps and converters. Unless you
are
>>
>>>bypassing every
>>>EQ and converter and going digital in and out to the same converter when
>>
>>>comparing, it would be hard
>>>to say the mix engine itself sounds different than another mixer, but
taken
>>
>>>as a whole, then
>>>certainly they may very well sound different. In addition, hardware digital
>>>mixers may use a variety of different paths between the I/O, channel
>>>processing, and summing,
>>>though most are pretty much software mixers on a single chip or set of
>dsps
>>
>>>similar to ProTools,
>>>with I/O and a hardware surface attached.
>>>
>>>I know it may be hard to separate
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| Re: IRQs, again [message #76164 is a reply to message #76105] |
Sun, 19 November 2006 10:33 |
uptown jimmy
Messages: 441
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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ow if
>the
>>>> two
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>files truly cancel even a levels below hearing, or
>>>>>>>>>outside of a frequency change that we will perceive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>When they don't cancel, usually there will be way more than 1 bit
>>>>>>>>>difference - it's usually one or more bits in the words for
>>>>>>>>>thousands of samples. From a musical standpoint this is usually
>in
>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>frequency range (low freq, or high freq most often) - that will
>>>>>>>>>show up as the difference between them, and that usually happens
>due
>>>> to
>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>form of processing difference between the files,
>>>>>>>>>such as EQ, compression, frequency dependant gain changes, etc.
That
>>>> is
>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>I believe you are thinking through, but when
>>>>>>>>>talking about straight summing with no gain change (or known equal
>>
>>>>>>>>>gain
>>>>>>>>
>>>&
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